Catherine Deneuve
Translation: Ren Ding
Edit: XL
Catherine Deneuve, known for starring in many world film masters and shaping women with different images, has starred in Louis Buñuel's "Daytime Beauty", François Truffaut's "The Last Subway", Jacques Demi's "The Umbrella of Cherbourg", etc., twice helped the Palme d'Or, nominated Caesar for best actress many times, and is known as the national treasure ice beauty in the history of French cinema and the first lady of the European film industry. Deneuve also maintained a relationship with Italian actor Marcelo Mastruani for several years, becoming the most concerned "gossip girlfriend" in the European film industry at that time. On April 2, 2012, the Lincoln Center Film Society honored Catherine Deneuve at the 39th Chaplin Awards Gala. This is followed by a special re-publication of the Film Critics' Interview with Kathleen Deneuve in the November-12 bimonthly magazine Film Review in 2008.
AD: Arnaud Desplechin
Arnold Desprichin
CD: Catherine Deneuve
Catherine Deneuve
CD: So serious?
AD: This was for Film Review magazine, kind of like the Film Handbook in the United States.
CD: I don't read the Movie Handbook. Although I buy it, I don't look at it. These magazines are for people who think seriously and think about movies, not for people like me. In fact, I don't read much magazine about movies.
AD: I started reading the Movie Handbook when I was 16 years old.
CD: There are two things for me: action and reflection. I found that I prefer to act because I read very slowly, so I would rather spend time going to the movies.
AD: But when you start working, isn't it through dialogue that you're fulfilling your dreams in movies? Many of the people you worked with in your early films were associated with the French New Wave, such as Jacques Donnyor-Vaqueroz, Roger Vadim, Georges Drelou, Raoul Kuta... Don't they like to talk about movies?
CD: Like, but they prefer jokes to serious discussions. They are more engaged in action as much as I am.
AD: So do you go to the French Film Archive?
CD: Sometimes. I watched early films, one of which was The Naked Jungle (1954), and I didn't start going to see movies until I had a movie-loving boyfriend when I was 15, when I was making Les portes claquent (1960). Ivan the Terrible (Иван Грозный, 1944) was a huge influence on me.
The Naked Jungle (1954) poster
AD: Did you see that in the Film Archive?
CD: No, on the Left Bank. For me, it's like traveling abroad. I seem to remember that my boyfriend lived on the Left Bank, so we went to a theater on Rennes Street.
AD: It was the Arlequin Theater, a theater owned by the Communist Party.
CD: Yes, it's the Arlequin Theater. My boyfriend is a young, communist, staunch objector, and so on.
AD: Didn't you go to the movies a lot before that?
CD: Very little. We don't go out as often as other families.
AD: Even though your parents are actors?
CD: My father was in the theater and was a vocalist, but we didn't live in that environment at all. My mother raised us very seriously and traditionally, and the film was not part of our family life.
Ivan the Terrible (Иван Грозный, 1944) poster
AD: What are you more interested in — actor or director?
CD: Always been more interested in the movie itself. It's very strange that there's never been an actor who fascinates me, except Marilyn Monroe. I happened to get into the film industry. At that time, my sister was working in the theater, and my son inherited his father's business. My first role was with her, and I played her sister. For that, I felt a little marginal until I met Jacques Demi. It was just when I started building a (professional) relationship with someone who really needed me that I realized that movies could be something else for me, so the movie was no longer a coincidence. In the film L'homme à femmes (1960) that I starred with Daniel Darrieux, Demi met me.
AD: Long before the film was made, he gave you the character in Les parapluies de Cherbourg (1964). Filming had to be postponed.
CD: Yeah, because I'm pregnant.
AD: But it was only after The Umbrella in Cherbourg that movies became your passion?
CD: Yeah, I think it's a very important song and dance film. We shoot for very little money. I think we have to be very resourceful for the sake of the movie budget. Most of the time, I spend time with Jacques. All recordings, I was present. Then, I worked with the soundtrack of the film. Then I got pregnant, so he postponed filming, but started shooting two months after I had a baby.
AD: In addition to being an actress, you've been involved in a lot of directing.
CD: Of course, because the preparation work was a big part of the film. The Umbrella of Cherbourg existed before we started filming, and when we heard the music, we were all moved indescribably, even though there were no images yet. Jacques was demanding, but also shy and loved to laugh. I realized myself completely from the way he worked. The production of this movie is ridiculous, but I like it this way: everything seems extraordinary. At the same time, I could feel that Jacques thought I was indispensable. I realized that cinema has such potential that it can lead to encounters between people who want to do something unusual. This movie confirms that the most important thing is to do what you want to do with people you trust and who don't think the same way. If this movie doesn't make well, I think it will be another story.
Poster of the umbrella of Cherbourg (Les parapluies de Cherbourg, 1964).
AD: If it weren't for that, do you know what you would want to do?
CD: I probably won't do anything. I will marry my boyfriend, who fought in Algeria, had kids and divorced after three years, that's for sure! I wanted to be an architect or an archaeologist.
AD: Usually in movies, if the actor's emotions are absolute, the character he plays will become the protagonist. Trivial emotions must be hidden. I was touched that everything about Genaviyev was not hidden. She was pregnant, she was young, and she hated her lover because she was bored. What surprised me most was her insignificant emotions. Any actress and any director would demand that the role be "absolute." For me, she proved herself to be "relative", which is even more touching.
CD: This is Demy! It's a complete way of shooting, like looking at things from a certain height.
AD: How do you think Kazan would shoot this ordinary but not stupid heroine?
CD: You really should mention Kazan, because when I watched The Umbrella in Cherbourg a few years ago, it occurred to me that it had the exact same ending as my favorite movie, Splendor in the Grass (1961). This is the craziest and boldest movie about love. The final scene is exactly the same as in The Umbrella in Cherbourg, and it was very touching to see this similarity.
Splendor in the Grass (1961) poster
AD: In all of your films, I see a unique quality that I don't see in other actors. What I saw was a director's logo. Aside from your great performances, all your movies seem to share your gaze, your point of view.
CD: Yes, you're right. That's what it is: a gaze. I think I've always tended to that. Maybe it's because I've never been to acting school or worked with actors. I've only seen them on set. I've never really had an actor friend other than my sister. I'm always on the director's side, or the writer's side. I didn't make any choice, it just happened naturally.
AD: You just talked about your love for Marilyn. Later, you dyed your hair blonde. This gesture fascinates me.
CD: It's a gesture of love.
AD: Do you use your mother's surname in the same way as the Declaration of Independence?
CD: Not really! My mother said, "You're going to take my maiden name." I said, "Okay, okay. "I can't possibly use the same surname as François. Or at least, that's what my family said at the time. François studied at the Conservatory and she worked in the theatre. I don't think it's permanent. I didn't expect me to continue making movies. My interest is completely elsewhere. If I had come again, I wouldn't have agreed to that decision! I love my mother very much, but I don't like her maiden name, it's hard to pronounce... I prefer my real name.
Poster of Belle de Jour (1967).
AD: You were still young when you met Custer, Varda, Demi, Chabrol. I also always think about Polanski and Rapeno, surrounded by these people, does the film seem like a battlefield in ancient and modern wars?
CD: No, I don't know what's going on because my life is completely separate from that environment. I've always done my best to keep my love life very personal, and I've always chosen the movies I wanted to make. Those were two separate worlds that had never merged. Ultimately, movie scenes are not a part of my life at all. But movies did help me grow. I'm really ignorant of a lot of things. It's hard to imagine how being part of a big family can change your relationship with the outside world. Because, at the same time, a large family is extremely protective and very closed. When I realized this, I longed to leave. I was a little worried about that, so I left my family when I was very young.
AD: Did the experience of shooting Repulsion (1965) with Polanski in Pop's Revolutionary London have had a greater impact on you than modern warfare in France?
CD: It's interesting because all three of us are French: Romain, who, despite being Polish, always speaks French; Gérard Brasz, and me. We really were three musketeers. Everyone else on the scene was British. Roman knows how to be respected by the staff, he is a man who never compromises. But because we speak French, we experienced the production of this film from the sidelines in a rather unique atmosphere. We are at the heart of the team.
Repulsion (1965) French poster
AD: Like the movie you made with Demi, Cold Blood requires an intimate relationship between the director and the actors.
CD: Yes, I feel very, very close to Roman. I think it's the movie I helped make. Producers are used to making. It's a small budget movie, and for them, it's no big deal... And The experience with Roman was very important to me.
AD: It's a terrible character. When I think of your characters in Belle de Jour (1967), Tristana (1970), Liza (1972), and so on, you have to be brave enough to break through them! If we look back at your career...
CD: For me, it can't be a profession.
AD: Other actors will accept the role because the role is shameful. But what impressed me about your performance was that you took on this role because you believed that the role wasn't that shameful. Or scandals are an inherent part of life.
CD: Yes, of course. In my opinion, it's funny and normal. I remember meeting a reporter in Los Angeles, just after Teêne's Les voleurs (1996), said to me, "You don't know how lucky you actresses are in Europe." An American actress would never agree to play a lesbian in a movie, after her certain age, at some point in her life or career. Too risky. "I'll admit I'm always meandering forward. You know, it really depends on what movies are available to you. It's not always that fun.
Les voleurs (1996) poster
Maybe people are more open to my choice, while for others they'll say, "It's weird she did that." "After Day beauty, I can play more and more characters. Day Beauty is a movie that has grown larger over time. It did well when it was released, but only later became a fabulous, almost cult film. The character became some sort of symbol, a strange heroine. Because I played her, people made assumptions about me.
AD: I admit I prefer Tristana...
CD: Of course I prefer Tristana to Daydreamer.
AD: Your performance is amazing. The character's jump from sadness to innocence, to joy, to despair, and finally to pain, is a rather long journey.
CD: Yeah, the production experience of that film was quite unique. Few people can play a role that has experienced so many emotional states.
AD: In your shooting diary, you mention that when filming the scene on the balcony, Buñuel said "there is no psychology". Hitchcock handed Buñuel a note because of the scene, telling him his admiration for the scene, and he was jealous. It's a shocking scenario that can't be explained by psychology.
CD: Sometimes you have to accept the fact that the image is stronger than you, and the director's intentions are stronger than yours. That's why the performances are all about making your mind very open and very easy to penetrate. When he told me, "You laugh," his idea was to try not to move, smile at the same time, and leave the director's intentions behind. There was enough intention at the beginning!
Tristana (1970) poster
AD: You've worked with a lot of directors who are much older than you, Buñuel, Melville, Oliveira. However, throughout your career, I've never felt a submissive relationship, but more of a brotherhood.
CD: I think it's my masculine side.
AD: So what about that very conservative middle-class actress?
CD: Unbelievable! I was shocked when people summed up me as blonde, cold, serious. People cling to anything that reinforces their assumptions about a person.
AD: There's a naughty side to your character choices and the way you play them. You have to know that when you accept a certain role, people are shocked, which is a bit out of bounds...
CD: I never thought about the audience until the movie was made! Even after it was filmed, I always wanted the audience to be comfortable watching the movie. But if people don't like it, even if it bothers me, it won't affect the happiness I'm shooting. Many people have talked to me about Un conte de Noël (2008), and perhaps never dared to tell me before. It's weird... People love some of the joyous aspects of the character. The scene with Amalik in the garden was stunning. It's arrogant and real, and what they say is a very bad taste, because these are not the kind of words that should be said between mother and child – it moves them. It's interesting.
Legend of Christmas (Un conte de Noël, 2008) poster
AD: Movie Review is an American magazine, so I should really ask you some questions about the method, about the construction of the characters, how you found a certain pose. But you once gave me a very touching answer: "My relationship with the character is made up of spiritual things, and you shouldn't express it in words." It is unethical to do so. The most critical moments in my work happened when we were shooting. The moment was so tense, so exhausting, and once it was over, I needed to completely separate myself from the set. When I got back to the locker room or the hotel, I self-isolated because I was too tired on set. ”
CD: It's true that I can concentrate quickly while we're shooting, but it does exhaust me. It threw me into such a state! Trance state. So, what I need is either a calm hypnotic technique or a sleepwalking technique...
AD: Emmanuel Dove once told me that people would ask: How do you create a character? Of course, when there is a time of adequate preparation.
CD: Not for me.
AD: But in the end, only the remaining five percent are eternal, because the audience will see it. That five percent happened during filming.
CD: There's no doubt that some things started before: some subconsciously, some consciously. For me, it happens instantaneously. Without a director, no one to guide me, I can't work alone. I had to immerse myself on the set, that day, the location, the lights... I need to know what happened before the story. For me, that's the most important thing: connecting a character to our place in the movie.
Dancer in the Dark (2000) Japanese poster
AD: In Dancer in the Dark (2000), your character is sullen in a corner of the theater, and you say, "I don't want to play a dog," but you start barking anyway. This is not submission, but dialogue.
CD: It's hard to explain what really happened at the time. Because in fact, I shouldn't be calling. I remember doing the same thing in Lisa. When we looped the sound, it was me who was calling. I said to [director Marco] Ferreri, "Since I'm playing a bitch, I'm playing a dog too!" "I was pregnant with Chiara when I made that movie... I don't know what happened to Ras von Thiel. I think you need a lot of trust to do that. You have to be able to think, "I know he wouldn't use it if it didn't work." ”
When I'm with a director, what scares me the most is when I feel like "they don't have an opinion, they don't know what they're doing, they can't judge". Then, I couldn't completely give up on myself because I knew no one there would catch me. For me, that's the worst. When what I really want is to give up on myself, I back off. It has nothing to do with age and experience. It's all a matter of intuition.
AD: Or you need to have good enough taste for both.
CD: If I realize that the director is different from my taste, then I cringe. It was horrible. In general, this is dangerous for actors. Without trust, you can't throw yourself in a certain direction. I think male actors are more likely to encounter this than actresses.
Active (Hustle, 1975) poster
AD: I love one of your characters in Robert Aldridge's Hustle (1975), and it's a shocking role.
CD: Yeah, it was with Bert Reynolds. They warned me about the director, "He's a misogynist!" He was harsh on the actress. "That was the first time I was on a set with two cameras. I said to Aldridge, "But if this lens position is suitable for wide-angle shooting, how can it be suitable for close-up shooting?" "What he wants to grasp every time is intensity. We got along very well.
AD: Did you like Truffaut and Belmondo on the crew of La sirène du Mississipi (1969)?
CD: I think it was a unique shot. François was writing a dialogue while we were working. At night, they would preview the next day's scene by the door of their hotel room.
AD: In the script and in his own book, Truffaut highlights all the clues that help us understand what stage the couple is in. It's both inspiring and crude.
CD: It's a very unashamed movie. Sometimes it's hard for me. But, in those moments it is accurate: if she feels he is suspicious, or even if things go well, she feels that she can abuse his trust... It was true that it was rough, but her relationship with Belmondo was difficult.
Poster of La sirène du Mississipi (1969).
AD: He's brilliant in the film, but French audiences don't like to see a man play a female character.
CD: I don't like Belmondo in particular! The truth is, he wanted to work with François, but I think he realized that the film was more for me than for him. Plus, he got engaged to an actress, which didn't make things easier, but did come into conflict.
AD: The ending in the snow is more or less improvised, isn't it?
CD: He really wanted it to be like a cartoon. When we got to Grenoble and he wanted to finish, I was like an evil queen poisoning Snow White.
AD: My impression is that Le dernier metro (1980) is more stylistic and has a greater impact on you than The Last Metro.
CD: Yes. "The Marriage Of Deception" is much more complicated. In The Last Subway, we spent a lot of time together. François never watched samples. I would watch, and he would ask me to describe what I saw. We talked a lot about movies, actors. That's where his passion lies. Of course, talking about movies is more than actors.
Poster of the last metro (Le dernier metro, 1980).
AD: In an article Truffaut wrote about you, he said, "Catherine is not a flower. A woman, a flower, those are stupid. Not to mention a bunch. Catherine is a vase in which the viewer places the bouquet. You yourself describe your work as "a blank piece of paper," and the film is written on it.
CD: François's idea of vases is very correct. Blank pages... Yes, it's true, I'd rather start with no intention and get my own thoughts at the end. I can't decide what a role is. At the same time, from the moment I took on a character and read the script, I knew things were going to cycle through my mind. Not all the time, but it doesn't stop completely. I'm not obsessed, and it's not hard for me to get rid of my role at night. However, I know that during the shooting process, there is always a sense of nervous fatigue that will disappear without a trace. I know now that some things happen without doing anything.
AD: You mentioned sleepwalking. I found another Truffaut quote about you: "Catherine is a slow actor, she's quite slow. ”
CD: Really?
AD: Right. "A well-known actress, the movement is a little slower than the average actor."
CD: Maybe. Still, it's dumb. Annoying is when you have to play some innocuous role. Sometimes I watch action movies and think, "Oh my God, they must be bored!" How many times do they have to do it? "I think it's scary. You have to do this, you have to look at this, and then, you have to get in the car... And action movies are pretty much like that.
Vertigo (1958) poster
AD: Yes, but the car, the looks, the boredom, that's exactly what James Stewart did in Vertigo (1958)! Didn't you meet Hitchcock because of a movie?
CD: Yeah, I should make a movie with Hitchcock. It was also set in the north, and like Torn Curtain (1966), it would be a spy story. It was just a synopsis. I had lunch with him in Paris and he died a few months later. I would love to work with him.
Torn Curtain (1966) poster
AD: Well, I'm going to start a stupid game with you. It's a quiz. Picasso or Matisse?
CD: I choose Picasso.
AD: The Rolling Stones or the Beatles?
CD: The Rolling Stones.
AD: Town or country?
CD: Towns, even though I love the countryside.
AD: Renoir or Bresson?
CD: Ask me how cruel this is! I choose Bresson... Oh Renoir, if I were younger! Now, I think, I'll choose Bresson.
AD: Studio or location?
CD: I prefer a natural setting.
AD: Flaubert or Stendhal?
CD: Stendhal.
AD: Pollock or Warhol?
CD: Pollock.
Andy Warhol
AD: Beethoven or Mozart?
CD: I chose Mozart because I didn't want to cry.
AD: Shakespeare or Molière?
CD: Shakespeare.
AD: That's too simple, Shakespeare or Strindberg?
CD: It's hard! But I still have to choose Shakespeare.
AD: Too easy, Strindberg or Chekhov? Now I'm an asshole.
CD: Oh, I love both of them so much! I can't choose.
AD: I have a solution: Nicholas Ray or Andre Teichner?
CD: (Laughing, she shouted) Tehine! Tehine!
AD: Stanislavsky or Brecht?
CD: Oh, Brecht!
AD: I'll end with an excerpt from Truffaut's article: "If humans are divided into exposed and voyeurs, Catherine is a voyeur, and therefore closer to life." ”
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