Witi Ihimaera is one of New Zealand's most renowned writers, having published seven short story collections and 15 novels, including Whale Rider (1987) and Bulibasha (1994), which led to the films Whale Rider and Patriarch respectively. His most recent work, Maori Boys: Childhood Memoirs, won the 2016 New Zealand Book Award for Nonfiction Literature. His upcoming works this year include Black Marks on the White Page and the novel Sleeps Standing. Witty has been a diplomat for 14 years, teaching literature at the University of Auckland and is a member of several cultural institutions, including the New Zealand Film Council.
Witi Ihimaera Oriental IC Infographic
In 2003, the novel of the same name, Based on the novel of Witi Ismaela, "Whale Rider", was a global hit, telling the story of Pei, the granddaughter of an ancient tribal chief on the coast of New Zealand, who became the first maiden chief with great courage and ability. Like Whale Rider, most of Witty's works confront the contemporary Māori situation, focusing on patriarchy in the Māori community and identity as an aboriginal person in a developed society. Last week, Witti was invited to Shanghai, and the surging news reporter chatted with him about his creation, Maori literature and other topics.
The Patriarch movie
Whale Rider movie
The Paper: You are very good at portraying the image of a strong and determined woman, is this related to the women around you in the environment where you grew up?
Isimaela: Māori society is predominantly patriarchal, but in my formative years, most of my influence came mainly from the women around me. Because of this feminine factor in my upbringing, I always wanted to justify the role and dignity of women.
The Paper: So you wrote the novel Whale Rider to challenge patriarchy in Maori society?
Isimaela: I challenge patriarchy in any society. Any society that does not recognize women's justice, dignity and equal rights is an unbalanced society. Today, in many countries, such as New Zealand, Mäori women are more likely to receive a university education than Mäori men. I visited a museum in Shanghai yesterday, and I saw a lot of female figures hanging in the posters hanging inside, which I thought was very good.
The Paper: After the release of the movie "Whale Rider", how did the Maori community evaluate this movie?
Ishimaela: Some Maori people are very receptive to this film, and of course some people don't like it. Because you're recreating your own culture, you need a different way of presenting it. For example, at the end of the movie, the girl directs the male clan on the raft to row, and some people criticize me for saying that in reality this is impossible to happen, and the girl cannot direct the male clan. There's also a scene where a girl fights a boy with a stick, and someone says you can't behave that way because you're putting women in a fight scene, and in Maori society, women can't go to war. So you have to dare to present this to challenge the wrong places in your community.
On 7 March 2015, in Christchurch, New Zealand, the International Maori War Dance Festival was held in Hagley Park. Visual China Infographic
The Paper: New Zealand has a population of just over four million, did you have a hard time publishing your first book?
Ishimaela: Because I'm Māori and the publishing industry in New Zealand is predominantly European, they want to produce a different book. I went to three publishing houses, and when I found a fourth one, they found that my work was valuable, and of course this value was determined by the judgment of Europeans. And I'm proud of myself that I've changed the way people think about what's valuable, and what used to be judged on New Zealand literature was based on European standards, and now it's new Zealand's own standards. So what we're doing is decolonizing literature, and we're representing the voice of decolonization.
The Paper: How to understand the decolonization of literature?
Ishimaela: Before I went to the literary world, New Zealand literature was a colonial literature, a colonizer's literature. Later, like many countries, indigenous writers, black writers, Caribbean writers, writers of color, and minority writers began to write their own literature to challenge the colonial system. That's where I am, I'm a postcolonial writer.
The Paper: You often compare English with Maori, can you elaborate?
Ishimaela: Maori is sacred because there are things you can't do in that language. It's a language of the sun, a language for chanting, and I'll never be able to write a novel in Maori because it's formal, it's classic, it can't be downplayed. But English is secular because you can do anything in English. You can say bad, vicious things in English, which are not allowed in Maori. And this is what I am often misunderstood by people in the English-speaking world, how can you say that our language is secular? But I don't mean that.
27 April 2016, New Zealand, In the run-up to the 2016 Rio Olympic Games, Māori held a ceremony to celebrate the 100-day countdown to the Olympic Games. Visual China Infographic
The Paper: You once mentioned your dilemma as a writer, you said that you are a Maori in the postmodern world, how do you understand this dilemma?
ISHMAELA: That's why I think I'd better be a Māori in a postmodern Asian world, and my dilemma was that I was māori in the European world, in the Western world, and the European world, the West is not the basis of our Māori, our foundation is the Pacific Rim, and China is part of this belt, and this is the world to which I really belong. I would like to see more Chinese works translated into English. Lu Xun, you know him, but no one in the other world knows him. I hope that my descendants should understand Asia, which is my purpose in coming here. Not just to shift the way New Zealanders write about Asia, but why do they never write about Asia? Because they don't understand. Although China is currently one of New Zealand's most important trading partners, our (New Zealanders') mentality is still geared towards Europe and the United States, and we should move from Europe and the United States to Asia.
The Paper: Do you think your writing style and writing pursuits are magic realism?
Ishimaela: Magic realism is a European idea. I often say that I am a writer of magical reality, and I often say that you always put me in the framework of a European, why can't I have my own framework? You say I'm writing about magic realism, but I don't think there's anything magical in my work, it's just that you think it's magical. So I think it's unfair to put that label on the head of a writer outside of Europe.
The Paper: How do you position Maori literature in New Zealand literature?
Isimaela: For example, the three highest-grossing local films in New Zealand, which are also Maori-themed films, are The Hunt for the Barbarians, The Maori Boys and Whale Riders. I, along with Patricia Grace and Keri Hulme, became the most important force in contemporary New Zealand literature. In the past, there were no Maori in New Zealand literature, and now there are us. But we believe we need to serve as mentors to the younger generation of Māori because young people can't follow our path again.
Maori rowing. Oriental IC Infographic
The Paper: Can you share your experience as a diplomat for 14 years? How can diplomacy be done?
Ishimaela: I don't think there's that much difference between politics and culture. If you're a writer or a PR consultant, you can do a lot of things. I'm not just writing about my tribe, I'm also representing my tribe. Whenever there is a political opportunity or a career opportunity for me, I will say yes. Because if I refuse, it's tantamount to admitting that I can't do it. At that time, there were no Maori in diplomacy, so if I did diplomacy, it would be tantamount to proving that Maori could do it.
The Paper: Do you think it would be easier for a writer whose native language is not English to write in English, to be successful in the West? Take Hakin, for example.
Ismaela: I think the way you look at this is wrong. Why should a writer be famous in the English-speaking world? That's what matters that he deserves to succeed in his own country. Why do you want English to be a privileged language in the world's most populous country (China)? When my book was translated into Chinese published, I wondered, why would Chinese readers buy my book? Does this New Zealand whale-related book have anything to do with Chinese culture? You should read your own books.