High Voltage Supercharger Industry Status and Prospects Conference

Q: The layout of high-power charging systems of domestic OEMs, 800V large voltage or large current, the improvement of the infrastructure of charging piles, and the market pattern and prospects of super charging

A: There are two kinds of mainstream equipment on the market: DC pile and AC pile. AC piles are generally 7kW, commonly used in the community, and the charging efficiency is slow. Fast charging piles (DC) require industrial 380V power supply. Now DC has gone from 30kW in the early days to around 120-150kW now. The next generation of fast charging energy reaches more than 400kW, but its requirements for the entire system are to be able to adapt to 800V voltage and 600A current, so the design architecture is different, the original air-cooled power module, conventional IGBT or silicon carbide mosfet, to use liquid-cooled system to solve the system high-voltage charging problem. From the long-term planning point of view, there are no ready-made products on the market, but from this year, Wei Xiaoli these companies have their own plans to build their own stations, which is a trend in high-end cars, and the cost of the whole vehicle will gradually cover the low-end models after the decline.

Q: Tell us about the battery side

A: The market is mostly used is about 1.6C battery, matching 800V400kW system at least 4 times the charging efficiency, the original battery cell single voltage of about 3.65, but if you want to reach 800V system, the voltage to reach more than 4.4 volts. The performance of the battery cell itself also needs to be greatly improved, and the requirements for the internal resistance of the cell are also very high, and the internal resistance should be increased by more than 20%, which is about 0.3 of the internal resistance value. The system of the whole vehicle definitely needs silicon carbide, from the motor electronic control to THEOC, that is, from the substation system to the power supply, it needs a silicon carbide substrate to match the entire power system. There are more liquid cooling systems at the charging end, and there are more equipment that match liquid cooling.

Q: The model project on board, the layout of silicon carbide next year

A: Xiaopeng will meet the new model G9 at the middle of this year, and the model of the 800V system will be listed at the end of the year; ideally, a pure electric passenger car will be listed around Q3 next year, using an 800V system, and the back planning is about 4-5 models, which are basically two basic configurations, one is 800V supercharging, and a conventional only 1.6c, but the energy density is relatively high and the endurance is relatively long. Xiaopeng is also such an idea, first listed 2.2c, 1.6c this kind of battery, at the end of the year on the market 800V system. Weilai basically insists on changing the power route, and the system of overcharge is relatively slow. In china, geely and the Great Wall, geely's extreme krypton brand was released, it is doing a complete set of charging systems, single pile can currently do about 250kW of power, the next generation may do 400kW, the second half of next year to the end of the year will also have new models on the market. The model of the salon currently planned by the Great Wall is relatively expensive, requiring the charging efficiency of 4C, and it is also planning to do charging stations on its own, and there are some samples. Beiqi Jihu cooperated with Huawei, huawei to create a set of supercharging system, the current single pile is also around 250kW. Xiaomi can't see clearly now, he wants to take a very wide route, the first car 100,000 to 300,000 have, the determination is that the highest match is also on the 4C, the charging network now has no official plan.

Q: BYD this piece?

A: One is to adhere to the battery blade this route, the raw material system is lithium iron phosphate, the possibility of raising the charging performance is small, its density is too low, not suitable for passenger cars. It feels like BYD is around 200kW, 2.2c-2.5c.

Q: Is 250kW the corresponding mainly 400V DC fast charging, that is, 400V×600A collocation mode?

A: Yes. Extreme KrY BAIC BYD is 400V×600A

Q: Tesla has a layout of 380V, 600A high current charging mode, this piece and high voltage charging mode ratio, advantages and disadvantages

A: First of all, high voltage, high efficiency, power saving. Energy consumption of hundreds of kilometers is about 2-3% energy saving than traditional electric vehicles, and the battery can be relatively small. The other is that the harness can slim down.

Q: How much cost change can the harness slimming bring?

A: The charging end of the high voltage line is increased, and the drive end is reduced. Overall costs increase, but energy savings can be achieved.

Q: It is reduced on the vehicle side

A: Yes, the on-board side is reduced.

Q: Is there a quantitative conclusion on this? How much can the automotive side optimize?

A: More comprehensive, if the battery performance to 4C, 800V this system takes into account the safety factors, the energy density will be reduced, the material density of the battery may be lower than the ordinary, the entire power is about 5% lower. Energy consumption is about 3-4%, charging time, 20-80% of the charging range, with 400kW fast charging, about 10 minutes.

Q: The problem of power exchange

A: During peak hours, frequent power changes will seriously lag. A substation has about eleven or two batteries, and the more you go to the back during peak hours, the slower it is.

Q: Is the trend to charge high voltage instead of changing power?

A: Each has its own benefits. Operating vehicles are suitable for power exchange, and the cost of power exchange is lower than that of fast charging. If the current is small, the load on the voltage device is not so large. If you change the power, the operating vehicle may not care much, the family car cares more about the battery, and the newly bought car battery is replaced back and forth.

Q: Will Weilai lay out high-voltage charging behind it

A: It has been laid out, and Li Bin said at the last press conference that it is also doing it. What point is it difficult for him to ride the tiger now, if he gives up the electricity replacement subsidy will be reduced, according to national regulations, after July 20, more than 300,000 yuan of cars, if there is no power replacement, no subsidy, this part of the cost can not be digested. In addition, the investment cost of the substation is very large. In the short term, Weilai will not take supercharging as their main business, which is equivalent to just a pre-research concept.

Q: In terms of market structure, what is the current sales ratio of 400V models?

A: Basically. In addition to the particularly small car to the Macromine Mini, the A-Class car may have 200V.

Q: Is it 0% above 800V at present?

A: It is still under development and has to go through many rounds of verification.

Q: How long will it take to verify, and will there be a clear volume this year?

A: I think there will be a round of winter and summer tests.

Q: How many models will appear on the market at the end of this year?

A: This year is very rare, one is the layout of the power station network at the end of this year, how much can be laid, the other is the capacity of the battery, the production capacity of the 4C battery will not climb very fast, and the increase in process difficulty also has a great impact on the yield of its production.

Q: Forecast market size in the past two years

A: The flashpoint is around 25 years. 25 years can see the real market, can occupy a part of the market, after all, the cost of batteries is 20% higher than the ordinary, this part of the cost to transfer to the user.

Q: 1 kWh electricity 1000 yuan?

A: Basically around 1000

Q: DC fast charging is popular, will automotive OBC be replaced?

A: It depends on the construction of infrastructure.

Q: Will the two-way OBC penetrate upwards, and will the car companies add this equipment accordingly?

A: Yes. Weilai also made a large conversion box, the cost is much higher than the installation on the whole vehicle. A conversion box may be 4000-5000, but the cost of the car may be 2000-3000

Q: Is the conversion box outside the car?

A: Yes, outside the car, it is also DC to AC, and the car output is converted to AC.

Q: Is the conversion box a component on the charging pile?

A: It is the equipment that accompanies the car. I heard that the procurement cost of Weilai is about 4000-5000 yuan.

Q: Who made this conversion box for WEILAI?

A: It could be Hangzhou Foote.

Q: What are the differences between the technical routes of automotive power supply suppliers such as Hangzhou Fute, Xinrui, Weimeisi, and Derun Electronics, and how do automakers evaluate these?

A: Derun Electronics was acquired by Meida, which was previously in the European market, mainly BMW Porsche and the like, and was ready to move to China after the acquisition. Fute is similar to Inbo in the OBC field, belongs to the second-rate echelon, and does some low-end car companies, such as BAIC, Great Wall's A-class cars and other cheaper versions, Yingboer to Wuling Hongguang mini to do, the amount is very large, but the profit is very thin. Xinrui's overall design ability is quite strong.

Q: How big and thin profits can OEMs give?

A: Maintain normal operations. Gross margins are 20% higher and less than 15% are low. Net profit is also 1-2%

Q: The top five suppliers are listed in order

A: The first BYD (Fordy Electronics), because BYD's new energy car sales are particularly large. The world's first battery is Delta, which does Tesla and NIO OBC.

Q: OEMs choose suppliers to see the cost of materials?

A: Look at the brand and market performance.

Q: Matching situation

A: It depends on the production capacity. Wemyss' production line is the best in domestic intelligent division. The production line of Xinrui is not as good as that of Wemyss. Huichuan's development potential is also good

Q: Huichuan will also be laid out on the vehicle power supply in the future?

A: There is a project fixed for him.

Q: In the field of on-board power supply or supercharge system, will automakers choose several suppliers or exclusive supply?

A: Geely and Xiaopeng produce themselves, including chips are produced by themselves, and Huawei cooperates more deeply, but Huawei's cost is not low, so I think they are still assembly plants. The core of the charging system is still acDC, DCDC and power module.

Q: The partnership between Xiaopeng and Xinrui?

A: Xiaopeng's OBC is Shinrui, and P5 and G3 are Wemyss'. The current charging station uses ABB's foundry main engine, but ABB does not have a core and is also an assembly plant.

Q: Is this technical barrier high?

A: The technical barriers are mainly on these modules.

Q: 11kW, the cost of materials for chunking, how much is the bicycle

A: Three-in-one disassembly, 11kW assumes that the module cost is about 3500-4000, the PDU accounts for the smallest cost, in 500-600, DCDC in the middle, around 1500, the remaining 2000 is OBC

Q: There are some that do 22kW

A: Very little. A pack is very expensive, 7000-8000, and the current of 32A is not enough, the household power supply 220 AC, the current needs to reach 100A, generally speaking, the usual residential buildings are not easy to use.

Q: Is the future of Small Three Electrics an integrated trend?

A: Maybe the PDU will be taken away and gradually integrated into the battery.

Q: Is OBC and DCDC a trend of combining the two into one?

A: Right

Q: Does every company have silicon carbide products?

A: There are basically all the development capabilities, but there are no existing mass production.

Q: ObC's product strategy is not a just need, in order to discharge externally?

A: It is divided into two, one is the internal discharge of the internal car, and the other is the external discharge. Optical DCDC is not enough.

Q: After the popularization of 800V silicon carbide, which electrical architecture or which parts will be affected on the whole vehicle, including cost or weight and volume of the bicycle.

A: Silicon carbide is affecting the motor electronic control, he electronic control this piece is actually a substrate, which is equivalent to saying that this piece of influence is relatively large. Then the impact on the obc is not too big, one is dcdc, its impact is about a few hundred dollars, but you may be the motor electronic control of this piece, if you say that your apartment device is the power of the motor electronic control is relatively large, it should be about two or three thousand dollars.

Q: There is an impact on the electronic control of the motor for two or three thousand dollars?

A: Right.

Q: How can you predict the penetration rate of silicon carbide and how will it develop into a penetration rate of the market?

A: The next generation, like ON Semiconductor, Infineon, and St, and including Cree, its new lines are basically silicon carbide.

Q: Now, if you directly apply silicon carbide, is it that the infrastructure has not been matched with it?

A: No, I got silicon carbide and I can use it now.

Q: Backward compatible?

A: Yes, backwards are compatible, but if it is up, it depends on the device side and its future development trend is to look at the speed of building a website.

Q: How fast is the station built?

A: Xiaopeng and Geely, as well as Tesla, are building quite fast now, including Xiaopeng's words, which are also planning more than 10,000 stations. Ideally this piece 5 years before the planning of 3000 stations. Then in fact, there is another big head, that is, Huawei's own export piece, how many stations are not clear now, but they have now invested thousands of people to do this piece.

Q: Does this OEMs do it themselves or outsource it to suppliers?

A: Basically, the early stage is to do it yourself, and it is difficult to say whether there will be some outsourcing or agency in the later stage.

Q: Charging pile, how many stations do you expect to have this year? On the total amount

A: There is no way to predict

Q: 800V architecture compared to 400V on the existing architecture of these electric vehicles, in addition to the battery cell may be its material body may change, the cost can rise at least twenty or thirty, and then dcac is good, including obc and other power-related parts, do you think this is the 800 volt architecture compared to the existing market in these 400 volt architecture, parts I think two aspects, one is the value of a single part of the biggest increase in which is? For example, the battery is the most obvious such as a 20% increase, and others such as dcdc, how about its lifting degree on a single value. The second industry is now slowly integrating, for example, 800 volts, it may have higher insulation requirements, then it is necessary to put some parts, and then integrate it, and then use a seal may be insulated by plastic shelves, anyway, these two pieces, one feels which single pieces of value increase the most, and the second is the most beneficial to the integration of which links?

A: Integration it is a kind of physical integration, that is to say, its pure architecture and structural integration, the original is your motor electronic control or reducer to it into a box, it may be in the material is the shell of the material cost it may save, and then on the connector will save some. The other is the board end, may have originally wanted two or three sets of chips, and now it may be to use a chip, this also depends on the improvement of technology, and then the other is to say that the computing power of its own chip has not improved.

I think the biggest benefit is definitely to do the core, for example, silicon carbide is packaged, they must be this income must have a certain increase in cost. First of all, I think you don't have a photoelectric core to increase by 20%, in the electronic control of this MCU this piece also increased the cost of 20%, and then the other is THEBC piece of almost, obc and dcdc. It also raises the cost by 20%, basically around 20%.

For these parts assembly, the early stage of its income is not too high, after the amount of assembly, I think the entire report of the 800 volt system in about 25 years is the golden period, whether for downstream raw materials, such as the formulation of this manufacturer, such as electrolyte, cathode materials, and then another is to do IGBT silicon carbide these, for this kind of manufacturer, the entire market size will come up, the profit should also be quite considerable. Then in terms of parts assembly, including batteries, motor electronic control, power supply, these in 25 years, its amount is also equivalent to driving its related downstream costs will also be reduced, the amount of it may have a part of the profit, in this time period, their overall profit should also be a fairly good stage.

Q: Basically including power semiconductors? Including all electricity-related, including batteries are benefiting.

A: Yes, and then the integration is basically because its so-called physical structure integration is too obvious, and the OEMs can calculate it, so it basically doesn't get much benefit in this piece.

Q: The difference in technology or the leading advantage between several manufacturers is not so obvious? Everyone is basically still on the same starting line, and then the competition is still relatively fierce

A: Yes, because these products are basically in addition to the battery, the remaining technical barriers are not particularly large, because the silicon carbide solution has basically been laid out since a few years ago

Q: That is to say, it depends on the fixed point of each enterprise, and then looks at the recognition of each enterprise customer, right? Then this may be the way to verify the manufacturer's graduation, because you said that the difference in conditions from the technical process is not so obvious.

A: The difference in battery is more obvious, that is, it still belongs to a more advanced formula after all, and generally speaking, it will not be easily leaked out. Then in addition, the protection of their own intellectual property rights is also very important, so the battery will be divided into a echelon echelon form, may first Ningde BYD and so on, and then the second-rate echelon will start again

Q: All companies are laying out silicon carbide, that is, you just mentioned that like Wemyssin Boomer, does every company have related silicon carbide products? Including whether it is obc or dcdc.

A: No one has ready-made mass production, and basically has the ability to develop

Q: But isn't the G9 going into mass production this year?

A: G9 is 2.2c

Q: Which company do you think was the first meeting?

A: I think the first meeting of the whole vehicle should be Xiaopeng or Geely.

Q: Geely is extreme krypton?

A: Right. Basically, the time period is similar, all in the next year.