This interview is part of the next-generation game news "Indie Intelligence Network", and was conducted by Daichi Saito, the head of "WSS playground", which produces indie games such as "NEEDY GIRL OVERDOSE" AND "Touhou Luna Nights", and "Game Ken", a game criticism media that has 2,000 subscribers on note Jini, the person in charge of (ゲームゼミ), jointly conducted interviews all over the world at his own expense.
关于Indie Intelligence Network，可通过https://whysoserious.jp/iin/cn/了解更多。
In February 2024, NEXON Games (South Korea) will celebrate its third anniversary with the launch of Azure Archives (ブルーアーカイブ). According to Sensor Tower, the game's total global sales surpassed $500 million that month, and in April, the TV anime "The Animation" (ブルーアーカイブ The Animation) was launched, and the fan base continued to expand.
Fans agree that the charm of Azure Files lies in the high-quality story experience it brings to players. Vivid character descriptions, heartwarming stories, and sometimes hilarious humor have transcended borders and won the hearts of fans around the world.
What kind of people created this game? What kind of processes and collaborations make this pure world possible? Where does the script, the characters, and the background music come from?
With these questions in mind, our Indie Intelligence Network interview team was given permission one day to interview one of the people who knew the Blue Files team best at NEXON Games headquarters in Seoul.
He is the plot director and original author of "Azure Files", alias Mr. Liang Juning (양주영) of Isakusan.
The opportunity to interview NEXON Games, one of Korea's best game developers, was a rare one. In particular, it was a very precious opportunity to interview Mr. Liang, who is one of the soul figures of the game, and this was the first time in the Japanese game media.
He's talking about the secrets that make Azure Files a top-notch piece of entertainment – not only for the content of The Azure Files, but also for a rational discussion of the game's story. We hope that not only fans of Azure Files, but all fans of the game, will read this article.
Left: Daichi Saito, right: Liang Zhuning
01 The pillar of "Azure Files", the real Liang Zhuning
-- Please tell us a little about yourself.
Liang Zhuning (hereinafter referred to as "Liang"): I am Liang Zhuning (isakusan), the main script writer of Azure Files, produced by MX Studios of NEXON Games. Mainly responsible for the script, world view, setting and other contents of "Azure Files".
At the same time, I am also the head of the IP room. As the name suggests, an IP room is a department that coordinates IP-related matters. From a holistic perspective, I repeatedly consulted with the heads of various departments, including the producer, art director, and game director, to ensure that the script and characters were consistent and consistent with the company's policy.
── Tell us about your experience before you entered the game industry.
Leung: When I was a child, I wanted to be a cartoonist. I've been drawing manga since I was sensible. However, around the age of 15, I realized that my talent was limited and turned to fiction. Around the age of 20, I was fortunate enough to get a commercial debut in the field of fantasy novels.
Since then, I have gradually become obsessed with pure literature. In Korea, there is an award similar to the Akutagawa Prize in Japan, the Suitcase Literary Award, and I have great admiration for modern Korean writers such as Kim Yeon-so (김연수) and Kim Hoon (김훈). In fact, I also chose the Department of Creative Writing at Seoul National University of the Arts to challenge pure literature.
However, I once again felt the limits of my talents, so I chose the path of game development in my late 20s. For a while, I worked in the field of visual fiction and developed works such as "CROCINTHUS" (크로세인더스) - I was so shy to tell you about my debut work (laughs). In 2013, I took charge of Kurare: Library of Magic (큐라레: 마법도서관), which was my first foray into operational games.
──You've challenged so many media outlets, such as comics, novels, and video games.
Leung: Purely because I love creating stories.
However, when I was working in literature, I wanted to convey some meaning through stories. In my early twenties, I experienced many existential crises and struggled with my relationship with the world. The world is full of unexplainable mysteries that I want to touch and understand. At that time, the only method around me was "writing". It can be said that my move towards literature was a natural process.
However, the more you write a novel, the more you have no way out. Eventually, I realized that I might not be able to break free from this shackle for the rest of my life, so I gave up on my literary career.
In retrospect, I guess I made the right choice. However, even after leaving literature, the troubles of that time did not disappear. I still think in my own way and find out.
──There are a lot of philosophical questions in the story of The Azure Files, does that reflect your experience in literary creation?
Liang: I belong to the company. The company's assets cannot and should not be used for my personal philosophical reflections. If you see a theme in a game, think of it as the inevitable imprint that I, as a creator, left when creating my work.
"Azure Files" is an entertainment work of otaku culture. Since it was created by humans, it is inevitable that it will leave some trace beyond the pleasure of being a commodity.
-- What do you mean by something other than the fun of the product?
Liang: Emotions other than fun, that is, questions about life.
However, these "profound" parts can only be established on the basis of entertainment. The game must be interesting first, otherwise the questions it contains are meaningless. I believe this and think it may be professional ethics.
- In the official art collection "Azure Archives Official Art Collection", you mentioned that you were influenced by Japanese light novels and manga. When and how did you come across these works?
Liang: The first light novel I read was "Full Metal Mania" by He Dongji. It happened to be around 2002, when South Korea began to officially import light novels. At the time, I thought the book was very original.
Even if I read it now, it's a great work. The article is exceptionally well written. Mr. Hedong's article is concise and clear, and at the same time grasps the core of the matter.
Around 2004, a series of works such as Mephistopheles and Faust entered Korea through the Heshan Bunka Society, which had signed a contract with Kodansha, and I read the works of artists such as Maijo Wangtaro, Oiichi, and Nishio Restoration.
-- I see, while maintaining entertainment, there is also a hidden literary quality, which is indeed the impression of the literary magazines of the 21st century, such as light novels and Mephistopheles.
02 Azure Files is a game that focuses on "plot".
- Next, I'd like to hear how Mr. Liang worked with the NEXON Games team to create Azure Files...... In particular, the production method of the story experience that is at the heart of this work.
First of all, the game is made up of a lot of text, but an adventure game like Azure Files can only display a few dozen words in a text box at most. For those of you who have worked directly on text novels, this is a huge change -
How does Teal Files use text boxes as a form of representation?
Leung: In my opinion, the biggest advantage of a novel is that it must be written beautifully.
For example, the novels of Yasunari Kawabata. The content of the story is not complicated, but the writing is intoxicatingly beautiful.
I feel like I'm the one who has lost out in that world of writing. So, plunge into the game industry and die in the world of storylines. The characters in the game are active, and the events are happening until the end of the game. It's a world closer to media like movies and comics.
On the other hand, the weakness of the novel is that once it is "translated", it loses its beauty. If I wanted to spread Korean novels to Japanese readers, no matter how beautiful the translation was, the beauty of the original text would only be felt by Japanese readers. Although recent entertainment works are produced on the premise of global export, the aspect of "translation" is extremely disadvantageous to literature.
Given these strengths and weaknesses, Azure Files is not only for South Korea, but also for global players, and we focus more on the efficiency of the plot than the beauty of the writing. Try to exclude third-person narration and present the story only through action and dialogue. These experiences were nurtured and inherited from the previous book, Curare: The Magic Library.
It's not easy to reduce the amount of text. It's ideal to minimize the amount of text that appears in a text box at once as much as possible. Of course, storytelling also carries a certain weight.
Saito: When I read the plot of the Azure Archives team, I was amazed at the impetus of the storyline. Outside of the storyline, such as settings such as halos and explanations of the worldview, are often suspended or delayed in a suggestive way. Is this a priority?
Leung: As you said, the plot of Azure Files excludes everything except the storyline. Although sometimes players get confused by omitting instructions such as settings, I still only focus on the storyline. Both the setting and the story should be driven by the characters.
If the screenwriter's method is followed, the apparently very special world of "beautiful girls in uniform carrying guns" should be explained at the beginning.
However, I chose to omit this part. This is a reference to "The Girl and the Chariot" (ガールズ&��ンツァー). In "The Girl and the Chariot", the story of the "Combat Lane" is established in order for the high school girls to enjoy the "Combat Lane" sport, and the chariot is set to have a special carbon coating, but these details are only presented in fragments in the story.
The setting should be like a stitch that ties the whole story together, not to illustrate the core of the story.
- It is said that the plot of Azure Files is almost always progressed through dialogue between characters. What did the team care about to make these conversations interesting and dramatic?
Leung: My ideal dialogue would be like a Quentin Tarantino movie. His dialogues are not meant to convey a storyline or dialogue message to the audience, but rather to express the character's personality. That's how the conversation should be.
However, The Azure Archives is neither a literary work nor a Tarantino film. Ultimately, it's all about prioritizing the amount of information. While trying to avoid just passing information through conversation, sometimes you have to do it.
It comes down to cost. The logic of an adventure game is different from a movie that advances through continuous action.
03 "Azure Files" produced by the team
-- Art works such as still images and vertical paintings bring the dialogue within the text frame to life. When it came to creating the fascinating story experience of Azure Files, who did it and in what order?
Liang: Usually the basic plot is made first. First, I would share the general storyline I wanted with the team, and then ask them for the materials they needed. Sometimes, art director Kim in (김인) would suggest in turn that "this scene needs more images." Especially in the final part, the art director added a lot of images after reading the text, and I am very grateful for their help.
- What about the character design process? "The Azure Files" has a variety of character performances. How did you communicate with the design team when working on these precision designs?
Liang: Regarding character design, there is no fixed process for creating each character because the method of creating it is completely different. Our team has otaku in every field...... In other words, there are otaku who draw, otaku who write articles, and all kinds of otaku gather together and discuss it repeatedly without any scruples.
Sometimes the illustrator will design the character first, and then we will discuss what kind of concept the character needs; Sometimes I settle on a concept and then tell the illustrator what kind of design they need.
For example, the characters in Convenience House 68 were designed by DoReMi first, and then I set the characters. We often work together in this way.
Sometimes, characters are created according to the needs of partners or enemies in the storyline. The partnership with Mx2J is just that. For example, the black costume is a character created according to the needs of the storyline, and the same is true for Miganelu and Kenzen Crane City.
Sometimes the characters are designed to change the storyline even radically.
For example, there was a time when a designer came up with a very attractive character design, and I was so impressed by the design that I decided to build a conversation around "These characters!" Thus changing the plot of the story. The 3D animators were also inspired and decided to work on "making motion for these characters!" The battle leader also said, "Then let's design a battle scene that fits these characters." In this way, a series of passions spontaneously sprung up one after another.
Why a character is appealing is difficult to determine. Even if asking, "Whose credit is it for this character to be so charismatic?" Because there are so many staff members involved, it is impossible to determine. The charm of the characters is sometimes intentional, and sometimes it is the accidental product of unintentional insertion.
At the end of the day, it's not the method that matters when creating great game content, it's who gets together to create it. This applies to all content and products. We can improve the efficiency of creation in a systematic way, but we cannot ensure the quality of creation through the system.
Our team is able to create attractive characters because we respect each other's areas of expertise. I feel very fortunate to have such a great team.
──The background music (BGM) of the game is also very interesting, how did you make it?
Yang: First of all, the background music was decided by director Kim Yong-ha (김용하), who chose the big framework of Kawaii Bass and Kawaii Future Base, and then I worked with music director Mitsukiyo to refine it. Mitsukiyo composes both his own music and orders with other composers.
I attach great importance to the role of background music in the story, as it evokes emotions in the story. For example, the theme music in the "Treaty of Eden" and the adaptation of "Aoharu" in the last chapter were all made and used according to my intentions. The same is true of "Welcome School" when the sand wolf Shirako and Shirako *TERROR (tentative name) hand over the mask.
What impressed me the most was the final chapter "Gentle Memory" (優しさの記憶). In order to keep players from skipping the ending credits, we played this song and subtitles at unexpected times to give players a sense of the whole story.
──Speaking of the background music, Aru's "Unwelcome School" is also very interesting. Did you have any creative intentions for this piece?
Leung: "Unwelcome School" started out as a background music for funny scenes, but it was so compatible with Ruu that it became her exclusive background music.
- I see. The Blue Archives is supposed to be a collaborative effort by all departments.
Leung: Yes. Finally, I would like to talk about my role. The biggest contribution I can make as a screenwriter is to "provide a vision", that is, a vision that is relevant to the plot that follows...... How should the follow-up of a certain story unfold, and what kind of ending will it usher in. Through the vision presentation, I can share the future of IP with my staff and fans. It's my duty.
Depending on the needs of the chapter, sometimes I write some texts. But as the director of writing, I also have to attend various meetings and coordinate opinions with the staff. As a result, I write less. I used to work overtime to increase production, but that would only make me so tired that I couldn't write, which was putting the cart before the horse. So now I'm more about providing vision for the team and indirectly involved in the work rather than writing directly.
As an operational game, we had to find a balance between our own environment and production constraints. Even if you know that you need to update the main story to maintain the interest of players, you can't do it without putting enough effort into it. In this entangled reality, as close as possible to our ideals...... It's also part of the game's production.
04 The "Treaty of Eden" has been remastered!?
- I'd like to learn more about the plot of Azure Files. However, there are so many compelling scenes and stories in The Azure Files that I may not have enough time to discuss them all, so I'll go straight to the heart of a plot.
First of all, the key to the popularity of "Azure Files" is the "Treaty of Eden". When was this one conceived?
Liang: The idea of the "Treaty of Eden" existed before the game began. However, it's completely different from what players see now. Originally, we planned to depict Trinity and Gohena in equal amounts. Then, the two forces will clash and Arius will appear. The Gastronomy Society has also taken on a more important role than it does now.
However, as the operation got underway, we found that this vision was unrealistic. Because the workload is too large, the company's resources cannot support it. So we made a complete tweak and decided to build the story around Trinity. Although it was still very difficult to remake the game from all the resources that were largely in place at that time, it was thankfully able to make the story compact and distinct. In the end, the story I wanted to tell came true in its current form.
The "Treaty of Eden" is divided into four chapters. Chapters 1 to 3 depict the story of Hitomi and her entourage in the "cram school" and conclude here. However, Chapter 4 unfolds the story of the opponents Saori and Mika in Chapters 1 to 3. This switch has deeply touched many fans.
What prompted you to insert Chapter 4?
Liang: At the beginning, at the beginning of the final chapter, the story plan to save the unspent was added. However, while working on the plot of the final chapter, I gradually realized that such a serious story was not suitable for the beginning of the final chapter. THE FINAL CHAPTER SHOULD FOCUS BETWEEN HAKUKO*TERROR AND FRENA PATIS, AND START WITH A RELAXED ATMOSPHERE TO CREATE A CLIMAX. In this case, there is no way to insert the unspent story.
The Arius Offensive and Defensive War was originally conceived, that is, the battle between Charle and Betti Licai, which revolved around the capture of the autonomous region of Arius. However, after a lot of trade-offs, we ended up focusing on the story of Mika and Saori.
── Among these characters, the one that impressed me the most was Mihwa. Although she is an enemy, after an incident, she regrets her way of being and begins to "pray for others." Is there anything you're particularly concerned about when considering her personality and growth?
Liang: The most prominent personality of Weihua is that when she does not understand what she is pursuing, or even refuses to understand, she goes to destruction.
This is actually a departure from the usual character creation norms.
All enemies (villains) must clash with the protagonist (decent). Therefore, it is essential to clearly present the player's goals, intentions, plans, and ideas, etc., otherwise the purpose and meaning of the conflict will be lost.
However, by adding semi-villains such as Nagisa Kirito, I created a multi-layered story structure that kept the unspent principle of action mysterious. In this way, the unspent heart becomes more complex than it seems on the surface.
Regarding the song "Kyrie Eleison", after chapter 3, I was struggling with how to save Mihua, and finally decided to join my favorite song "The Book of Mercy".
As an atheist, I believe that begging for forgiveness and forgiveness of sins should both be human behaviors. It is human beings who save mankind. However, at the moment when we forgive someone and save someone, we also touch the "sacred" that exists in our hearts as a possible state.
Eventually, we will be better off if we can let go of the emotion of "fair suffering." With this in mind, I created this story.
05 The essence of "Azure Files" and Mr. Leung's long-cherished wish is to be "funny"
- So far, we've talked about the production of Azure Files. Next, I'd like to take a closer look at how your presence has influenced the game. To put it bluntly, what is your greatest credit for Teal Files?
Leung: Humor, in short, it's funny. Funny is my forte.
The most direct effect of being funny is to attract the player's attention. Petite beautiful girl suddenly becomes muscular or puts on a mask to rob a bank...... This sudden plot catches people off guard and opens up to the world of the game.
Funny makes the context simple. Recently, cultural content has become faster and shorter, more and more suitable for sensory consumption. It is our responsibility to constantly think about narratives that are in tune with the times. In order to convey content to others, we must constantly sharpen our expressions.
Saito: As an indie game producer, I'm also very aware of the importance of being funny in games. However, when thinking about how to incorporate comedy into the game, I found it very difficult. Do you have any tips?
Leung: You can't teach the trick. It's all about talent. People who are good at being funny are good at it from the beginning, and those who are not good at it are useless no matter how hard they try. Therefore, I did not "teach the writers of the team how to be funny".
As a manager, what I can probably do is try to provide space for screenwriters who are good at comedy to use their talents.
Saito: Because if you want to appeal to the senses and your physiology, natural senses are very important.
Liang: Because it's a sensual realm, it's easy to be trivial.
For example, in Shueisha's "Weekly Shonen Jump" (週刊烟ジャンプ), serious works always ranked high in readers' polls of popularity, and funny manga did not receive many votes. On the other hand, the sales of funny comic monographs are very good. Therefore, this kind of manga has the characteristic of "everyone likes to read it, but they are not too embarrassed to say 'I like it'". Compared to other manga, it's easy to overlook funny manga that is thrown away right away after reading it.
Therefore, to be funny as part of the story, it is essential to have a strategy in place. It's not enough to be funny, the story must also be serious and deep, with some kind of value attached.
The Japanese manga Gintama is a good example. Its tone is funny comics, but it can be serious and handsome at times. The manga keeps the right balance by separating the serious and hilarious parts and sometimes confusing them together. The same is true of "One Piece", which is very cleverly matched with funny and serious.
I use funny as a way to get players interested, but I also go for creativity. Add depth to the story by adding a certain quality to the lightheartedness.
Saito: When robbing a bank, the conversation between Shirako and Shirako*TERROR is a good example.
Liang: I'm glad you found that.
My goal is to convey emotions that are difficult to define through stories. For example, in the "Treaty of Eden", when Hitomi puts on a paper bag, she says to Bai Zhouzi, "I am in the same field as you now." ”
This may seem like an absurd scene, but players who have actually played the game will laugh while being moved. Different emotions hit at the same time, and I don't know if I'm moving or laughing now, and many emotions are intertwined, and I want players to experience this "feeling that they don't know yet". The dialogue with Shirako *TERROR was also made for such a purpose.
- For example, the sudden lengthening of the body is a physical thing, and the fact that "Azure Files" can be funny with just one portrait and one expression is also impressive.
Leung: In Azure Files, we mainly use dialogue to achieve a comic comedy. This is also largely related to the limitations of the medium and type of game. If it's now a manga or anime, we'd make more use of action to make it funny.
The comic style is the best solution due to character elevation and text limitations, and it is not the style that was pursued from the beginning. It is a means, not an end.
- It is precisely because of the limitations that the expression is more prominent. For example, the "art of expression" of the character. I especially like the expression of Ai Qingfuka at the Gohena Catering Department when she is harassed by the Food Research Association.
Liang: Realistically, it's difficult to change the pose in the illustration, but if you just change the expression, the cost is relatively low. For this reason, we ask an illustrator to "make various expressions" after drawing the character.
It is interesting to give the example of Fuka. We didn't have any special requests for the noodle teacher in charge of the illustrations, and he drew a lot of expressions and said, "If you like it, use it." We liked it so much that we used it.
- There are a lot of characters in Azure Files, but there are almost no funny characters that are specifically there. Even seemingly funny characters must have both a funny and a serious side. Did you consider this inner complexity when creating your character?
Leung: Absolutely. Gintama is a good example. Every character in that comic has a hilarious and serious side.
There are a lot of staff involved in character creation, and the premise of this process is to "have a worldview where all characters can be funny characters." Characters born under such a worldview will naturally contain some funny elements.
The charm of the character comes from "care". In other words, unexpectedness. We are attracted to someone in reality because that person continues to arouse our interest. This human interest is due to the fact that the person is somewhat different from our expectations and expectations. Symbolic characters are more likely to be portrayed in surprises because of their distinct personalities. Using this skillfully, it is possible to create lifelike characters.
Hanako Urawa is like that. Originally, we asked the art director to make a "pure, pure, and pathetic" character of the beautiful character, but this character was gradually deviated from the process of writing the plot and became the character it is now.
This may not be revealing the creative method, but rather confessing that I am a deviant person.......
Saito: I feel that there is an idealistic side to the story and worldview of Azure Files. Perhaps this has something to do with the "world that can be funny"?
Leung: In this harsh world, not forgetting to maintain a positive attitude is one of the reasons why we do comedy. When making Azure Files, neither the visual nor the story of the game wanted to pander to the gloomy post-apocalyptic world that was prevalent at the time.
Gag and joke are closely related to ethics. Touching and ridiculing taboos is the essence of comedy.
It is precisely because this is a worldview that tolerates taboos that it seems a bit optimist. It's not an optimism in terms of story or setting, but on a more abstract level.
- Speaking of the hilariousness of Azure Files, it is significant that it was accepted by players and eventually reproduced in the form of internet memes.
For example, in the Japanese fandom, Hoshino (swimsuit) complained on the theme screen that "although it's not moving, it's still hot~", it unexpectedly became popular, giving birth to many secondary creations such as MAD.
Liang: Of course I know about Hoshino (swimsuit). Naturally, selling merchandise values the feedback of the merchandise, so we're always checking the player's reaction.
It's part of the meme that players have over that we can't control, but the content is creatively interpreted by the audience. As a creator, I'm very happy about it.
Especially in the case of Hoshino (swimsuit), Ms. Yumiri Hanamaru (Hanamaru ゆみり), who plays the voice actor, contributed a lot to the excellent voice acting. Although the voice acting work was directed from Korea, it was basically recorded at Yostar's Japanese studio.
The voice actors gave us an unexpectedly great performance there, and the post-production team did a professional job, and then the Japanese players turned it into a meme in a kind and fun way. This is a phenomenon formed by accident with the intervention of many parties.
This kind of accidental superposition is also the interesting part of game operation. An interesting event appeared in an unexpected place, and fans and creators accepted and promoted this fun story together. Communicating with our fans is both a pressure and a motivation for us. It's a bit like jazz improvisation.
06 Thoughts that run through "Azure Files".
Saito: The Azure Files cleverly puts the player in the role of a teacher. Why should they "become teachers"?
Liang: We try not to describe the teacher's personality and characteristics in detail so that it is easy for players to substitute. Therefore, sometimes the role of the teacher may seem ambiguous, but it doesn't matter, the teacher is just the personification of the player.
In the previous game, Curare: The Magic Library, the player's point of view, that is, the protagonist's point of view, was set to the Bishoujo character itself, which presented various problems. Each plot requires the main character to appear, which limits the screenwriter.
The Azure Files teacher is a vehicle for the player's empathy, observing the stories of the various girls in a slightly backward position in the story. This teacher's stance allowed the current group drama to be established.
Saito: I also want to be an "adult" as a teacher, and I even want to be a good teacher.
Leung: How do players perceive the teacher as an avatar, how do you interpret the story of Azure Files, and how have you been influenced by the work? I am grateful for this and feel a responsibility to the players.
I would like to ask questions such as "what are adults with a sense of responsibility like?" and "Are there any adults with a sense of responsibility to this world?" in this imperfect world, but that was not the purpose of the Blue Files. As I said before, these questions just came to me naturally.
However, I have great respect for Mr. Saito's statement that he wants to be a good teacher yourself, and I hope that you will put this idea into practice when you return to the real world.
I'm human too. Although I am an atheist, I desire something great. I also want teachers to be able to keep themselves.
As Nietzsche said, you can't touch hope without finding light in yourself.
- The beauty of Azure Files is that it's not limited to a specific cultural circle, but has touched players around the world. How did it achieve this universality?
Leung: Nowadays, the "absence of responsible adults" may be a global issue. Especially in East Asian countries such as Japan, China, and South Korea, which consume similar otaku culture, this issue is easy to resonate with.
However, this universality is not at the core of game making.
I'm worried that Teal Files will move out of the realm of entertainment and into the realm of literature. Fear that it will be criticized as "pretentious art".
Addendum: I'm forcing myself to maintain my identity as a company employee and not to stay away from entertainment.
However, in otaku culture, the concepts of literary, entertaining, universal, and thematic are sometimes coherent.
For example, you also openly say that you are a fan of Hideaki Anno's supervision. It is well known that the theme of "father's absence" in post-war Japan can be seen in his works, and his works are also considered to have a certain literary and artistic quality.
On the other hand, Neon Genesis Evangelion (エヴァンゲリオン) is also a giant robot sci-fi anime full of visual wonders. Although it is slightly different from the format of "Azure Files", it is also "fun" and "questioning" in "Neon Genesis Evangelion". In other words, when Neon Genesis Evangelion was popular in the 90s of the 20th century, sharing the emotion of "father's absence" was itself part of the entertainment trend.
Liang: That's interesting. What Mr. Jini mentioned is also a topic that I have been delving into. Let me take this opportunity to talk about it.
I consider myself a "stranger to otaku culture".
Whatever the culture, it originally had the indigenous attributes of the place where it was born. Japan's otaku culture is no exception. What is common in the works supervised by Tomino and Hayao Miyazaki is the theme that children must overcome the world created by adults (fathers), which, as Mr. Jini says, is a problem peculiar to post-war Japan.
Moreover, any work carries with it the humanity of the author. It is said that Miyazaki's father, who oversaw him, worked in a munitions factory, and this image was reflected in his work "What kind of life do you want to live" (君たちはどう生きるか), and the father supervised by Hideaki Anno was equipped with prosthetic feet, which was also reflected in some characters with physical disabilities.
This theme of "father's absence," which emerged from the culture and the locality of the writer, is the general perspective of adults in Japanese otaku culture, and it is precisely because of this that it has resonated and moved the world, and it is still supported today.
However, there are similarities and differences between these Japanese issues raised in Japanese otaku culture and the social issues that I perceive as a Korean. As far as Hideaki Anno's works are concerned, I watched "Sapphire Mystery (ふしぎの海のナディア" when I was 11 years old, and "Neon Genesis Evangelion" when I was in my second year of junior high school. I may love these works as much as the Japanese audience, but I also appreciate them through the lens of Koreans, and I think about the issues raised by Japanese society in Korean society.
In other words, I look at Japanese themes from a different perspective than Japanese people, so I, along with Korean and Chinese otaku, including myself, are "strangers of otaku culture" and create works based on the sensibilities and dissonances of "strangers".
In fact, when a place's culture gains international popularity and enters other cultural circles, it is reinterpreted from the perspective of the locals and new works are produced. This is not unusual.
American Westerns influenced Italy, giving rise to Italian Westerns – Macaroni Western, Spaghetti Western being the best example. We create works influenced by Japanese manga and anime, just like macaroni westerns.
──The example of a macaroni western is very apt. During the macaroni westerns movement, Italian directors such as Sergio Leone used actors like Clint Eastwood to shoot Westerns, shaking the mainstream ethical values of the United States at the time.
In other words, it was the Italian perspective that amazed the Americans who created the Westerns: "This is the real Western." "From this point of view, "The Azure Files" has also attracted many Japanese fans, and it does have the characteristics of a macaroni western.
Of course, the creators did not necessarily deliberately create an alternative for the United States, but made interesting works for the sake of entertainment, and accidentally acquired this criticism.
Leung: The cross-border and integration of cultures should be welcomed by otaku culture.
In fact, Japan's otaku culture, consciously or unconsciously, has had a huge impact on China and our Korea. As far as games are concerned, the social game genre of games that collect charismatic characters and make them fight is the best example.
The global export and popularity of games with these ideas have led to the emergence of games with new perspectives from other countries, such as Azure Files, which has enriched and meaningful the current otaku culture.
I call myself a "stranger from otaku culture", and I don't mean anything negative. On the contrary, I am a "other" in Japan, which was once the mainstream of otaku culture, a role that can stand outside of metacognition, participate in the global tide, and hope that we can expand this culture as well. Therefore, I am a "stranger".
From this point of view, I hope that the teachers of "Azure Files" are not private father-son relationships in the patriarchal system, but exist with a sense of social responsibility. The structure of an adult's guardianship of a child is different from that of a father-child relationship.
And, I have a burning desire to see characters as well.
Data is information. Characters are living beings.
The character is a projection of a human being. Characters are a reflection of who we are, and we can regurgitate our lives through their stories.
Therefore, we try to reflect the strengths and weaknesses of human beings in The Azure Files. It's market-wise, risky, but I think it's worth trying.
I'm actively working on creating hateful villains like Mika, Saori, and Harina. Of course, some players may not be able to accept these characters.
Even so, I wanted to understand the crazy and absurd world they live in as the "real world".
It is precisely because of the shortcomings that there is humanity. It is precisely because of humanity that there is verisimilitude and it can be the object of love. Helping these characters, the teachers themselves are helped. This joy of coexistence is perhaps the story I want to portray.
- It's the humanity of the characters in Azure Files that has won the hearts of players. …… Anyway, you mentioned "villains such as Mihana, Saori, and Harina", and Harina herself might have been a little surprised by this arrangement (laughs).
Liang: In a sense, Harina is a villain who lacks introspection. No, she doesn't even consider herself a villain. That said, she's not strictly a villain, but I sometimes wonder uneasily "Would players really accept such a character?" Could something be wrong? At this point, I put her in the same category as Mika and Saori.
Saito: One last question. Why does the title of The Azure Archives include "green" – that is, "youth"? We = the teacher is guarding it. Why should we (should) protect youth? Can you tell me the answer?
Leung: I'm 43 years old, and I'm not young anymore. But I had a time when I was younger. Looking back on those days that have passed, I feel that people in youth do not understand the value of youth.
Why is youth worth protecting? I can't give the player a reason or justification for this question. Or rather, the basis for this is not with me.
It's the player's choice. The player himself thinks that "it is necessary to guard", so it must be guarded.
If the player's judgment is not necessary...... That's a game design failure.
Saito: We will also take your words to heart and bravely protect our youth.
──Thank you very much for today. Finally, please send a message to our readers.
Leung: I talked a lot about Azure Files today, but at the end of the day, the game belongs to the company, and I'm just an employee of the company. The Azure Archives are the product of the employment contract between me and the company. This mundane fact is at the root of my efforts.
I ≠ Teal Files. The game was made by the team together. The Teal Archives is the result of the combined efforts of many people. Not only me, but also Director Kim Yong-ha, Game Director Lim Jong-kyu (임종규), Art Director Kim In, Project Director Park Byung-rim (박병림), script team, composition team, art team...... The list is simply too long. It is the people inside and outside the company who work together to support the Teal Archives and make it exist.
And the players. I thank you all for your love of Teal Files. At the same time, I'm wary of whether I'm going to be lazy because of the good intentions of the players.
As a creator, I don't rest on my laurels or get complacent, I want to keep chasing better stories. I'm going to keep myself up and keep trying. Finally, I would like to conclude with my motto, the Buddha's motto:
"All actions are the law of destruction, and we should strive for self-improvement and never let go" (The Great Nirvana Sutra)
07 Epilogue
As soon as Mr. Liang opened his mouth, he talked about philosophy from comics, and talked endlessly. We were impressed by his wisdom and enthusiasm, and we felt his deep affection for his work and his gratitude to his colleagues as partners.
Although he humbly claims that "he is just an employee of the company", without his wisdom and passion, "The Blue Files" would not have been such an excellent work.
Did his desire for "characters to be seen as living beings" reach the players? No, for those who have played Azure Files, it goes without saying.
From writers to game developers, from otaku in the 00s to creators in the Douyin era, from "strangers in otaku culture" who love Japanese animation and light novels to the promoters of the phenomenon of Korean game versions of "macaroni westerns". Mr. Leung crosses many boundaries and connects various cultures.
As a result, The Azure Archives has also gained transparency that transcends borders and eras to observe the world.
What kind of story will happen in the future? Please don't take your eyes off Liang Zhuning.
-- Finally, I would like to take this opportunity to express my heartfelt thanks to Mr. Bae Sang-hyun (배상현), the head of Vittgen.inc, who contributed to this interview, and Mr. rondo, who acted as the interpreter.
Interviewer, Editor, Planner: Jini
Interviewer: Daichi Saito
Written by: Chiba Collection
Photo by Asahiko Iyuda
Chinese translation: Deng Jian