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Interview丨Wu Nan, screenwriter of "Half-Mature Men and Women": True love is mobile, and there is no absolute definition

As the screenwriter of film works such as "The City Full of Golden Armor" and "Crazy Alien", Wu Nan has attracted the attention of the industry and the market this year because of a number of popular TV series. "If Running Is My Life", "City in the City" and "Half-mature Men and Women" written by her have been broadcast within a year and have achieved quite good responses.

Interview丨Wu Nan, screenwriter of "Half-Mature Men and Women": True love is mobile, and there is no absolute definition

"Half-Mature Men and Women" poster

"Half-Mature Men and Women" is adapted from writer Liu Cuihu's novel "There Are No Good Men and Women Here". When she first came into contact with the project "Half-Mature Men and Women", Wu Nan felt that she did not have enough time to devote to new works, but the charm of the novel itself quickly made her make up her mind. "When Ningmeng Film and Television came to ask me about this project, I said that I definitely don't have time, they said that time is not the most important thing, we can wait. As a result, after reading the novel, I felt a sense of freshness. She said that the true presentation of the emotional problems of urban men and women, as well as the unpretentious attitude, instantly moved her. In her opinion, urban love themes are often prone to fall into hypocrisy and superficial emotional expression, but this work has a "sharp and frank thing". Wu Nan hopes to retain the strongest and most intuitive freshness of his works, and convey them to the audience through images.

"Half-Mature Men and Women", which is now presented in front of the audience, has repeatedly appeared on the hot search due to the controversy of character settings, character relationships, and plot development, causing heated discussions. In this story, almost every character has moral flaws, and they all have their grayscales. For Wu Nan, her creative philosophy is simple but firm: the truth of emotions takes precedence over moral judgment.

"When we appreciate literary and artistic works, the first reaction to the perception, judgment and attitude of the protagonist is not moral judgment, but to feel them, and then there will be emotional reactions, which may be angry and anxious about them, and then moral judgment." "There's a lot of room for creators to move from feeling to moral judgment," she said. She believes that what really resonates with the audience is often not the flawless characters, but the imperfect characters who face real emotional dilemmas. In "Half-Mature Men and Women", the protagonists He Zhinan, Han Su, and Sun Hanhan are all facing conflicts between love and material, career and personal growth. Wu Nan chooses to reveal the complexities of urban life in these conflicts, rather than offering simple solutions.

Interview丨Wu Nan, screenwriter of "Half-Mature Men and Women": True love is mobile, and there is no absolute definition

In "Half-Mature Men and Women", almost every character has moral flaws, and they all have their grayscale

Although "Half-mature Men and Women" is an urban emotional drama, it does not deliberately cater to the market's inherent expectations for the theme of "big heroine". In recent years, many dramas have emphasized that women must achieve independence through career success, and Wu Nan chose to explore women's growth from an emotional dimension in this work. She asked rhetorically: "Why does women's growth have to be opposed to emotional needs?" "Love is also an important part of women's growth, and women's desire and experience of love should not be regarded as insignificant because of the emphasis on independence and career. Wu Nan also bluntly said that the love discussed in the play is not the narrative structure of "true love first" in traditional idol dramas, but changes with time, situation, and personal growth. "True love is a mobile concept, and there is no absolute definition of it."

In this story, Wu Nan is trying to reveal and explore those propositions that we are accustomed to but cannot easily answer. In the current urban drama market, such a gesture does not seem to be flattering. What the audience wants to see in front of the screen is a light-hearted story, an "independent woman" who advocates the supremacy of love, or is completely devoted to her career, rather than facing those vague, complex, mixed with various emotional dilemmas and realistic contradictions. But Wu Nan was unwilling to compromise. As she herself said: "It's not just the market that 'challenges', it's more about the audience's inherent perceptions." But this challenge is the most fascinating part of creating. ”

【Conversation】

The exploration and growth of the relationship between the sexes is more important than getting true love

The Paper: In the urban drama market in the past two years, it is rare to see a work like "Half-Mature Men and Women" with clear moral flaws in the setting of the protagonist, which will still have some market and public opinion risks. How to grasp this degree in creation?

Wu Nan: When we appreciate literary and artistic works, the first reaction to the perception, judgment and attitude of the protagonist is not moral judgment, but to feel TA, and then there will be an emotional reaction, which may be angry and anxious, and then moral judgment. Ethics is not the most important factor to consider in creation, the most important thing is authenticity. For example, is the emotional dilemma of the characters real? When we agree with the truthfulness of the event, we will see the real reaction of a person in the event, and then understand the person's reaction and the reason. When you enter this stage, you are actually detached from simple moral judgment.

In the process of moving from feelings to moral judgments, there is a lot of room for creators. Characterizing the characters through narrative techniques and dramatic tension makes the audience identify with their authenticity, as if they are themselves or the people around them, and then moral judgment lags behind. And sometimes because the characters are labeled and the story is not sincere, the audience can see the falsehood at a glance, then they will activate the moral judgment mechanism and put the moral judgment in advance. In fact, the audience is smarter and more generous than we think, as long as the audience feels that the situation of the characters in the play is real, they can understand.

And we have an important means - drama. As long as the drama situation is constructed wonderfully enough, and the relationship between the characters is complex enough, it is difficult for the audience to encounter such extreme people and things in life, they can experience the pleasure brought by high concentration of drama in the drama, the story is much more exciting than life, and at the same time, the emotions and emotions felt are highly consistent with life, and even reflect on life, which is the psychological mechanism of our appreciation of literary and artistic works.

Interview丨Wu Nan, screenwriter of "Half-Mature Men and Women": True love is mobile, and there is no absolute definition
Interview丨Wu Nan, screenwriter of "Half-Mature Men and Women": True love is mobile, and there is no absolute definition

Stills from "Half-Mature Men and Women".

The Paper: Have you personally made any observations about the young people around you? What are your observations and perceptions of their living conditions?

Wu Nan: As a Chinese opera teacher, I spend time with young people every day, and I feel that I am not much different from young people in terms of emotional feelings and difficulties. No matter how the times change, the basic emotions of human beings and the basic problems between the sexes remain the same, only the external form changes.

Young people in their twenties are in the "high incidence period" of love, but unlike the love in youth campus dramas, the love in youth is more real, and it is oppressed together with all kinds of realities in life. Maybe this kind of reality is not what the audience wants to face, so as creators, should we let the audience perceive this reality, or let the audience escape it? Is it a dream, or does it amplify the perception of reality?

"Half-Mature Men and Women" explores love and the problems within love. For example, Sun Hanhan's story involves the problems of love and materiality, and He Zhinan faces the problems of new love and old love, seven years and seven days, and how people find themselves in love. We hope to seriously put the problems in love out for discussion, without evasion, pretentiousness, and cheap output. We try to open up these love problems with a very real, even a little sharp, attitude and put all the difficulties in the face.

Interview丨Wu Nan, screenwriter of "Half-Mature Men and Women": True love is mobile, and there is no absolute definition

He Zhinan is in polyamorous love and is regarded as a "scumbag" and "sea king" by the audience

The Paper: In the past, there were works like "Struggle" that wrote about the life and love of young people in the city, but in recent years, this kind of work has gradually disappeared, and the modern urban theme left to young people is modern idol dramas, as if the emotional life dilemma of contemporary urban young people is rarely depicted realistically, but while we are immersed in the romantic illusion woven by film and television dramas, we do not believe in true love more?

Wu Nan: The theme of idol dramas is that true love is supreme, and all idol dramas must finally make you believe that there is something called true love in the world that can overcome everything. But in "Half-Mature Men and Women", true love is a moving concept, there is no absolute definition, it changes from time to time, from place to place, from emotion, to spiritual growth. This kind of point of view output does face a lot of uncertainty, and the audience may feel that they have heard something they don't want to hear, that they are offended, and that their preconceived notions are challenged, but this is precisely an opportunity for the audience to think with us: What is true love? What kind of relationship does true love have with our lives?

The title of "Half-Mature Men and Women" represents a growing trend, a process of exploring many things in the process of being mature, one of which is love, that is, the understanding of the relationship between the sexes, and then returning to growth itself from this understanding. Personally, I feel that this kind of exploration and growth is more important than getting true love.

The Paper: In recent years, there have been many dramas with the theme of big heroines and female growth, and they generally let the heroines collectively engage in careers. And now there is a popular narrative on the Internet, which says that the big heroine does not fall in love but only engages in career. But you just put women's growth in love, and discuss what value and significance emotional exploration will bring to women's growth, I think it's very interesting, because in recent years, some social public opinion has been opposing women's growth and emotional needs.

Wu Nan: I think it's very strange. In fact, most women with growth needs attach great importance to falling in love. Learning well, starting a business well, and having business acumen does not mean that you have the ability to fall in love, love is also a very important understanding for women, and the need for emotions is also real, why should we avoid it? Why should it be opposed to self and independence?

It is precisely in the narrative and framework of a patriarchal society that it can be said that women are not pursuing emotional needs, but pursuing a "meal ticket" and a "position". Then we rebel against this narrative and framework, thinking that women can achieve economic independence or self-fulfillment without marriage and love, of course, but that doesn't mean that the price of independence and freedom is castration of love, right? I often see some opinions, voices, and slogans in short videos on the Internet, which may sound very relieving, but real creation and life are not like that, and we have to think deeply.

Doesn't it mean that women have to be inseparable from men when they are independent? No matter how independent a woman is, she still has to deal with the relationship with the world, and half of the world is men. The relationship with men includes love relationships, friendship relationships, partnerships, etc., so how to deal with men is a very important thing for women.

Interview丨Wu Nan, screenwriter of "Half-Mature Men and Women": True love is mobile, and there is no absolute definition

Han Su is not stumped by emotions and concentrates on his career, which is more in line with the audience's vision of a "sober heroine".

So I didn't say: A good girl is a good girl who must have a career. In the process of revising the script before, someone proposed to treat Han Su as the number one woman, because she has no moral flaws and has a career, I am against it, I said why is a good girl who has a career? Why discriminate against people who are in love? Every girl has her own cognition and pursuit of life, and respecting their cognition and pursuit is the greatest tenderness and freedom. If all girls are forced to pursue careers, it will bring great anxiety, because not all girls are suitable for careers, and it is not that if they do not pursue careers, they will not have an independent spirit, and there will be no "independent individual" and "self", right? Why can't a girl who loves to be in love have a full self? This search for self may be more difficult than that of a woman with a career, because she has to deal with more complex, hidden, and confusing issues.

The output of film and television dramas is getting bigger and bigger, and the things I see are getting more and more "old"

The Paper: What do you think about the theme of women's growth?

Wu Nan: I have always believed that women should not be limited by a growth model, and that there is no escape from their role in life when women grow up. First the daughter, then the lover, then the wife, and finally the mother. Growing up happens in the process of choosing and interacting with these characters, you can choose not to be a lover, wife or mother, why do you choose that? What did you go through that would determine such a choice? It's inner growth.

We look at the women in the play from different angles, she may establish a partnership, friend relationship, marriage relationship with men, she either wants to gain a sense of self-worth by being loved, or wants to find a man to rely on to make herself struggle less than ten years, etc., there are various possibilities between men and women, we do not label "scumbags", "material women" or "big heroines", we put these women in specific situations, through observation and story development, to see what kind of results these relationships will bear, to see how they will recognize themselves. We often say "anti-social discipline", but what is social discipline? How do we counter? What parts to reverse? What parts are to be discussed, to be discussed, to be bargained? How should we find ourselves comfortable in society? These are all questions that we can think about.

Interview丨Wu Nan, screenwriter of "Half-Mature Men and Women": True love is mobile, and there is no absolute definition

"Half-Mature Men and Women" focuses on emotional games and women's growth

The Paper: I also think it's very interesting, we have been mentioning feminism and feminism, but in the writing of specific women's themes, the current film and television dramas are easy to limit women to a "big heroine" road. This seems to be a short video-style narrative that can make the audience feel relieved and motivated in the shortest possible time.

Wu Nan: As a creator, first of all, this novel has stimulated my desire to create. The purpose of our work is to break and reflect on some fixed things and stimulate the audience.

Today's market looks booming, and young people seem to be chasing new things, but in reality, we see old ideas, old routines. The output of film and television dramas is getting bigger and bigger, but in fact, what we see is getting more and more "old". This interaction between the "old" work and the audience will pull the audience into an increasingly narrow frame of thinking. To put it bluntly, this is because the creator loses the courage and opportunity to break through due to various considerations, which makes the creative path narrower and narrower, and also makes the audience's vision and views narrower and narrower, a vicious circle.

The Paper: But to describe the complexity of people and the complexity of real problems is extremely challenging for creators, and this challenge is not necessarily cost-effective, it may be contrary to the audience's inherent cognition.

Wu Nan: Of course, innovation is not a "martyr" in the market, but must be protected and paved. We have a "challenge" for the audience, but to make sure that they have fun and excitement, and to make sure that the story makes them want to watch it, I have to make sure that at least in terms of suspense and chasing, the audience wants to watch it.

In addition, in terms of characters, when we created the character of He Zhinan, we did not say that she was a good girl, nor did we say that she was a bad girl, she had changed because of her growth, and she was an imperfect girl. In terms of values, one of the narrative strategies I adopt is: it's okay to say they're good, it's okay to say they're bad, but in the story, they're at least growing in the right and positive direction.

Interview丨Wu Nan, screenwriter of "Half-Mature Men and Women": True love is mobile, and there is no absolute definition
Interview丨Wu Nan, screenwriter of "Half-Mature Men and Women": True love is mobile, and there is no absolute definition

Stills from "Half-Mature Men and Women".

The Paper: "Half-Mature Men and Women" is an adaptation project, and this novel does have a relatively large difficulty in adaptation, how do you evaluate it?

Wu Nan: Personally, I rejected the adaptation project before. But now, on the one hand, the creative environment has changed, and there are fewer and fewer opportunities for original projects to survive; On the other hand, with an open mind, I will feel that adaptation has the fun of adapting. First of all, the things you adapted have been screened and confirmed, and to some extent, there is the first round of market feedback, which is an advantage over making an original car behind closed doors, and there will be some bottom in your heart. Second, I will always choose what moves me and what overlaps with me. Since I chose to adapt, what was moved and triggered by reading this thing at first has always been the core pursuit of me to change this thing.

The Paper: For screenwriters, what do you think is the biggest difference between adaptation and originality?

Wu Nan: Literary expression and film and television expression are completely different ways, and things that are very enjoyable and refreshing when reading novels, such as famous scenes, are not necessarily suitable for TV dramas. The adaptation experience in the past few years has given me this experience: it is not possible to copy, the more "respectful" the original work, the more it is copied, the less it will be seen. When I did "City in the City" before, my experience and feeling was that the original book is like a big tree, and the TV series is not to make modifications on this tree, but to turn this tree back into a seed and plant a new tree next to it.

Of course I respect the original work, if I don't respect it, I won't choose it, of course I will "squeeze" the essence of the original book, but I have to change it back to its original state, turn it back to an abstract thing, and then retell the story according to the narrative needs of the TV series, characters, character relationships, and thematic strategies, so that I can make it a complete TV series.

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