▲活动大合照
不久前，青年建筑参与了“MOCAUP × COOPHIMMELB(L)AU蓝天组：设计的回望与探究”活动，并有幸亲自采访了深圳市当代艺术馆与城市规划馆的主创建筑师Wolf D. Prix先生。
▲Wolf D. Prix，蓝天组创始人之一、解构主义运动创始人
“蓝天组不是一种颜色，而是一种理念，暨，建筑源于幻想，可以像云一样变幻莫测的理念。”
1968年， Wolf D. Prix、Helmut Swiczinsky 和 Michael Holzer在奥地利维也纳共同创立了蓝天组 Coop Himmelb(l)au——一家不为常规线性建筑思维所束缚的建筑设计事务所，其团队深信建筑是社会众生的三维表达，因此建筑表达应当是蕴含社会、政治、文化、活力以及经济动力的综合性社会图解。
沃尔夫‧狄‧普瑞克斯曾获得的众多重要奖项包括：奥地利国家大奖（1999）及奥地利科学与艺术装饰勋章（2009）、Erich Schelling 建筑奖 （1992）、Officier de l’ordre des arts et des lettres法国文艺部勋章（2002）、Annie Spink 安尼.斯频克奖章（2004）、Jencks詹克斯奖章（2008）、数字未来项目奖（2021）、ACADIA终身成就奖（2021）。2023年Wolf D. Prix被韩国建筑师协会评选为 “年度100位建筑师”之一。他还曾带领团队获得了诸多国际性奖项，包括：美国建筑奖、国际建筑奖、RIBA国际奖、RIBA欧洲奖、世界建筑节奖、墙纸设计奖、MIPIM建筑评论未来项目奖、Dedalo Minosse国际奖、红点奖、吉尼斯世界纪录、奥地利国家建筑奖、丹麦建筑奖、奥尔堡建筑奖委员会、亚洲建筑奖、2A大陆建筑奖、Architizer A+奖、中国建筑学会建筑创作奖、Wallpaper杂志设计奖、数字未来奖及新近的Trezzini 金质成就奖。
以下是完整的专访内容：
青年建筑：
Prix：相当长一段时间，我们对此一直予以否认，不过，近年来我慢慢意识到，维也纳为数众多的巴洛克建筑遗产一直在潜移默化地影响我们——事实上不仅仅是我们，而是所有颇有建树的维也纳建筑师们。作为空间序列范式的原型，巴洛克建筑行云流水的空间序列远比程式化的功能图解更有价值。
For a long time we denied this, but now I realize that the many baroque buildings in Vienna actually influenced us subconsciously - and not just us but all meaningful Viennese architects. The space sequences of the baroque as design paradigm are more important than functional diagrams.
▲两馆建筑导览环节
青年建筑：
Prix：解构主义建筑常常被错误地解读。解构主义不是一个简单的建筑概念，而是一种哲学立场。法国哲学家雅克·德里达（Jacques Derrida）曾说过，潜意识对于意识有着至关重要的影响，而他本人也一度被视为解构主义的典范。在这样的语境下，我们一直在探索并试图尝试全新的设计方法，例如开放住宅（Open House）和法尔克大街屋顶改造项目（Rooftop Remodelling Falkestraße）皆是蓝天组早期的代表作，而后者更是全球首个建成的解构主义项目。
Deconstructivist Architecture is often misunderstood. Deconstructivism is not an architectural concept but a philosophical position. The French philosopher Jacques Derrida, who phrased that the subconscious has a critical impact on consciousness, is considered as role model. In this context we have been exploring and realizing new design methods, an example would be the Open House as a project and the Rooftop Remodelling Falkestraße as the first built deconstructivist project.
▲两馆建筑导览环节
青年建筑：
Prix：潜意识和无意识在维也纳这座弗洛伊德之城发挥着重要作用。我们的设计理论深受弗洛伊德著作的影响。20 世纪 60 年代，我们分析了德语中的Entwurf（设计）一词，这是一个非常精准的单词。它通过前缀“ent”和词根“wurf”，描述了一种复杂的、无意识的关系。作为前缀，“ent” 暗示了无意识的过程，如在单词“ent-flammen”中，意为燃起；或是在“ent-äußern”中，意为放弃。而词根“wurf”则来源于动词“werfen”，表示投掷。因此，合在一起，Entwurf（设计）意味着从潜意识中传达一个设计理念或想法。也就是说，建筑摆脱了所有现实中的桎梏。如果我们能够成功地摆脱陈词滥调、形式主义、技术限制和经济约束，那么真正自由的空间也就随之应运而生。
The subconscious and unconscious play a major role in Vienna, the city of Freud. Our design theory is strongly influenced by Freud's works. In the 1960's we analyzed the German word Entwurf (draft), and determined that it consists of the syllable “ent”, as in entflammen (to stir up), entäußern (to renounce), thus unconscious procedures, and the word „wurf“ (to throw). Put together Entwurf (design) thus means the bearing of an idea from the subconscious. That is, architecture is released from all practical constraints. And if we succeed to leave apart clichés, formalisms, technical and economic restraints then actually free space can begin.
蓝天组始终秉承其自 20 世纪 60 年代以来形成的“开放流程（open process）”理念，强调心理和身体在建筑创作中的重要性，并成功地将第一次和第二次数字革命带来的工具和潜在可能融入事务所的工作流程，这也使得大量设计作品得以实现。
Coop Himmelb(l)au remains true to its “open process”’ idea going back to the 1960ties, relying heavily on the importance of the psyche and body in the making of architecture, it has successfully incorporated the tools and possibilities that came with the first and second digital turns into its workflow, which also allowed its extensive body of work to be realized.
青年建筑：
Prix：非常好的问题！如果只从建筑（architecture）的角度就事论事地思考问题，那么你得到的也就只是建造物（编者按：这里的architecture 实际上是指building）。
Good question. If you only ever think about architecture, all you get is architecture.
▲两馆建筑导览环节
青年建筑：
Prix：永远都是下一个！
Always the next!
青年建筑：
Prix：建筑的任务之一是将设计理念本地化（让我暂且用这个糟糕的词——本地化）。它与设计理念的三维表达有关。克服重力的想法在哥特式建筑中已然可见一斑。即使在中世纪，人们也曾尝试过克服重力。此外，如前所述，如果只从建筑（architecture）的角度思考问题，那么你得到的也就只是建造物（编者按：这里的architecture 实际上是指building）。
One task of architecture is the localization of ideas (to use the terrible word localization). It has to do with the three-dimensional expression of an idea. And the idea of overcoming gravity, can already be seen in Gothic architecture. Even back then, attempts were made to overcome gravity. Besides, as said previously if you only ever think architecture, you only ever end up with architecture.
青年建筑：
Prix：在当下众城一面的钢筋混凝土丛林中，标识性建筑是维系其居民的场所感、获取居民情感认同的重要组成部分。
Today, in the anonymous net of the existing cities identifiable buildings are an important part of the emotional seizure through their inhabitants.
▲两馆建筑导览环节
青年建筑：
Prix：两馆的确是我们在中国最满意的公共文化类建筑之一。非常高兴重回深圳。
True. It's great to be in Shenzen.
▲两馆建筑导览环节
青年建筑：
Prix：近二十年来，中国市场对我们事务所一直有这巨大的吸引力。2002 年的广州歌剧院是蓝天组在中国首次参加国际竞标项目，我们有幸斩获二等奖；获得一等奖并被授予设计合同的是扎哈·哈迪德建筑设计事务所（Zaha Hadid Architects）。2019 年的邢台科技博物馆是蓝天组近年来在中国中标的最后一个项目（待建）。
The Chinese market has been very attractive for our studio for almost two decades. We participated in the international competition for the Guangzhou Opera House in 2002 and won the 2nd prize, the first prize was awarded to Zaha Hadid Architects. In 2019 COOP HIMMELB(L)AU won the competition for the Science and Technology Museum in Xingtai.
目前我们有几个中国境内的竞标项目正在进行，希望能在不久的将来为中国设计、建造更好的项目。
We are currently working on several competitions in China and hope to realize some projects in the future.
我们注意到，建筑环境科技在中国日趋重要。而这也是蓝天组COOP HIMMELB(L)AU长期以来一直关注的重要话题，我们希望能为未来贡献自己的一份力量。在欧洲，我们习惯于在给定空间功能的基础上工作。一切都是事先严格界定的。而在中国，在项目推进期间我们会与客户一起逐步确认。这最初对我们而言是一个巨大的挑战，但回想起来，这其实也不失为一种优势。不少中国业主暨合作伙伴的专业知识让我们印象深刻。特别是 2000 年以来，中国的建筑文化发展得如此之快，令人惊叹。我们项目中的重大技术挑战都得到了相当专业的实施，中国的业主和同行们对我们的设计也都有着相当深刻的理解。
We have observed that environmental technology is becoming increasingly important in China. This is also a big topic at COOP HIMMELB(L)AU and we hope to be able to contribute our part in the future. In Europe, we are used to working with fixed space programs. Everything is strictly regulated in advance. In China, the projects develop together with the client during the project. That was a big challenge for us at the beginning, but in retrospect it also turned out to be an advantage. We were particularly impressed by the great know-how of our Chinese partners. It is amazing how rapidly the building culture in China has developed since 2000. The major technical challenges in our projects were implemented very professionally and with great understanding of our design.
青年建筑：
Prix：建筑的未来是什么样子的？我经常被问到这个问题。我想应当是这样的：首先，我认为赫尔曼·梅尔维尔在《白鲸》中的描述是对未来建筑最唯美的描述，即：“我愿风有形体。”我想象中的建筑即是这样的。不再受制于重力，当然也没有柱子。更像是悬浮在云端的建筑。此外，我还认为，征服空间、中心透视和对称性已然过时了。
What does the future of architecture look like? I have often been asked that question. I can imagine it like this: Firstly, I believe that the most beautiful description of the architecture of the future is that of Hermen Melville in Moby Dick, namely: "I wish the wind had a body." I imagine architecture like this. There is no more gravity, certainly no more columns. More like buildings hanging from clouds. I also think that the conquest of space, the central perspective and symmetry have of course become totally obsolete.
我想从蓝天组的角度来回答这个问题。我们很早就开始使用人工智能（artificial intelligence），但我们称之为“建筑智能（architectural intelligence）”。我们把蓝天组所有过往项目都存储在一个名为“Deep Himmelblau”的研究项目中，并对其进行训练。作为全球首家自行研发自己的生成式人工智能AI模型的建筑设计事务所，我们在该领域处于领跑地位。我认为人工智能在建筑实践中的应用仍处于其整体发展的早期阶段。我们深信，值得关注的关键问题应当是：“如果没有AI的话，有什么是我们不能做的？”
I want to answer this question from our point of view. We work with artificial intelligence, but we call it “architectural intelligence.” All our projects are stored in our in-house research project called Deep Himmelblau. We lead the way as the first architectural office to develop its own generative AI model. I think the use of AI in architectural practice is at an early stage in its overall development. We believe that the critical question to ask is: “What can we not do without AI?