"Writer", this is the most conspicuous identity label of the "post-80s" Ma Boyong. Graduated from university in business, he worked as an office worker in a foreign company for 10 years, "wanted to try some free and casual life", resigned at the age of 35 and devoted himself to the literary world.
Since writing a small online forum in 1999, he has gradually become well-known to the outside world, and his love for words has never stopped.
Speaking of origins, he never forgets a scene 20 years ago: the University of Waikado, New Zealand, is about to graduate, but he is sad because of his graduation thesis. In order to relieve his sorrows, coupled with his love for storytelling, games, film and television during the Three Kingdoms period since he was a child, he decided to find a unique way to write a Three Kingdoms novel with the theme of espionage.
In 2005, "The Wind Rises in Longxi" was born, as the pioneering work of Ma Boyong's long historical novel, which quickly triggered a reading frenzy, and many years later he admitted that "in essence it is a product of escape", but the gears of fate began to turn.
If you want to talk about historical novels and popular film and television IPs, "Ma Boyong" is an unavoidable name. After the first novel came out, Ma Boyong continued to output high-quality works, and in recent years, his related IP adaptations have been talked about by the public and have been out of the circle repeatedly.
The righteous, clever and resolute wish in "Antiques in the Game", the resourceful and resourceful Zhang Xiaojing in "The Twelve Hours of Chang'an", and the upright, kind and indomitable Li Shande in "The Lychee of Chang'an...... He often focuses on the small people in the big history, but he can be whimsical and eclectic, and his works and their IP adaptations of film and television not only immerse people in suspenseful plots, but also resonate with the small people in them.
On June 23, during the "2024 Weibo Culture Night" event, a reporter from Zhengguan News had an exclusive interview with the famous writer Ma Boyong. "The most important quality for a writer is to have a curiosity about life." During the interview, he talked about creation, reading, and feelings, often funny, sometimes steady, witty, and honest and keen.
Zhengguan News reporter interviewed Ma Boyong
Talking about historical fiction: big things are true, small things are not informal
Zhengguan News: What have you been busy with lately? Do you have any work in progress?
Ma Boyong: I have just published a new book, and I haven't started to create the next book yet, but I am doing some preliminary research to find a creative theme.
The way I look for subjects is to walk around the country, and the places of interest and museums are good choices, including chatting with local friends and listening to some of the local stories, which are often hidden in the themes.
For example, when I visited the Nanyue Palace Museum in Guangzhou, I saw two wooden tablets that inspired me to see the number of the jujube trees on them, and they also recorded that they produced more than 900 dates in a certain year. I think it's a little strange, because Guangdong doesn't produce jujubes, jujube is a crop that belongs to the north, why does it appear in Guangdong? Later, I had a deep understanding of the historical background of the time and Zhao Tuo, the king of Nanyue, and wrote it into a book, and in fact, many of my books started in this way.
Zhengguan News reporter: You are quite accomplished in historical novels, and the words are full of fun and suspense, how did you get involved with the theme of historical novels?
Ma Boyong: I've tried all kinds of themes, science fiction, supernatural and historical reasoning.
I'm a big fan of history, and I don't think history is a strict classification, it's actually a context. With history as the background, we can write romance, suspense, and even science fiction, which means that history is actually a big category.
I think that writing novels in the direction of history may be endless. Because the Chinese civilization itself has a long history and a very profound cultural heritage. I rely on the 5,000-year-old Chinese civilization to write, so there is no lack of inspiration.
Zhengguan News Reporter: In your creation, how do you carry out your imagination on the basis of respecting historical facts, and how do you balance the relationship between the two?
Ma Boyong: In my creation, I have always followed the principle of "big things are true, small things are not informal".
We must respect the original appearance of major events in history and cannot change them. But under the general trend of history, can there be another story? We can expand our imagination, but this imagination is not made up in a vacuum, but in fact follows a kind of historical logic.
The so-called logic of history means that in the circumstances of the time, with the social rules of the time, and the state of the character himself, he may not have actually done this, but he "maybe" do it, and the occurrence of this event is not only in line with the state of mind of the person at that time, but also in line with his identity. I think it has to be at this level to be recognized by the audience.
For example, my first historical novel "Feng Qi Longxi", this novel is based on the theme of spy warfare set in the Three Kingdoms, and Zhuge Liang's Northern Expedition is used as a background. We all know that Zhuge Liang's Northern Expedition was a failure, and in this environment, it is impossible for us to write a spy who helped Zhuge Liang win the Northern Expedition, which is very difficult. But we can use an apocryphal spy story to reflect the mentality of Zhuge Liang and Shu before the Northern Expedition, as well as their various psychological activities. This fictional story does not contradict the historical background.
Talking about literary youth: Writing as a side hustle will lead to passion
Zhengguan News reporter: Nowadays, there are many young people who want to embark on the road of literary creation, either as a side job or as a main business. What advice can you give to young people who love and aspire to embark on the path of literary creation, based on your own experience?
Ma Boyong: Honestly, my advice is to get a job first.
Writing must be a side hustle, because you must be interested and passionate to be willing to write about it. In many cases, if you really think of it as a means of making a living, or as a formal job, maybe your love for writing will disappear or fade.
With a formal job, you can first of all guarantee yourself a living. In addition to this, after work, when you are already very hard, when you pick up the pen, or turn on the computer to write, you will find that this is a kind of rest, this is your adjustment. You feel something in your heart now, and you can write if you want to. After writing, what should be done. A good literary work must be born in a very leisurely and relaxed state, not a work written for the sake of livelihood, it must be a kind of accident.
Zhengguan News: If a young person wants to write his first novel, what advice do you have? The best part?
Ma Boyong: Literary works are ever-changing, and I believe that everyone has their own areas of interest, and everyone's understanding of the world is different, so there is no fixed direction and routine for writing.
I think the most important thing about the first novel is that it must be written based on my own experience. For us, life experience is actually condensed in our understanding of the world, and this understanding will eventually be reflected in the novel.
In other words, the richer your life experience, the more exciting the novel you write, and the more people you can recognize. From this point of view, I would advise those who are new to writing not only to indulge in writing, but also to go out and experience more. As long as you go out, even if you go on a poor trip, go around the world, or chat with people more, or even actively communicate with your boss and colleagues when you are at work, you will find that each of your experiences can be gathered into writing materials and form the basis of your writing.
Talking about the creative process: in order to get an objective evaluation, give the work to the "trial reader"
Zhengguan News: Speaking of your first novel, at the age of 25, your first work "Feng Qi Longxi" came out, what does this mean to you? Did anything change that made it happen to you at the time?
Ma Boyong: Strictly speaking, this book was my first officially published historical novel, and before that, I started writing on the Internet about 1998, when everything I wrote was relatively naïve, more exaggerated, and more like some pen practice. In 2004, I was graduating from college and was writing my graduation thesis, so I decided to write a novel in order to escape the pain of writing my graduation thesis.
This book was published in 2005, and for the first time, I held a physical book of my own, and I was of course very proud and fulfilled.
But more importantly, I would like to share it with all those who aspire to engage in literary creation: your first novel helped you "open the mind", don't be afraid of how bad the writing is, now that I think back to my first novel, it was not very mature, and many details were not taken into account. But the key thing about the first novel is that you've done a complete work the first time, from beginning to end, from beginning to end, no matter how messy the structure in the middle and the characters are, you've at least finished writing a novel. When you finish a novel, you've completed your metamorphosis from 0 to 1.
I think the process of going from 0 to 1 is more important than going from 1 to 10. Going from 1 to 10 is actually just a water grinding effort, and you can complete it with a little time, but the leap from 0 to 1 is equivalent to giving myself some proof: first, I have the ability to complete a complete work; Second, after I finished writing this work, I knew the whole process of writing by heart – I knew what writing was all about.
After achieving from 0 to 1, you can gradually adjust and upgrade yourself. The most important thing about the first work is to give us confidence that we have the ability to complete a work, whether it is good or bad, at least to prove that we can do it.
Zhengguan News reporter: After completing a work, how do you judge if there are any areas that need to be improved? Will you show it to friends or family first?
Ma Boyong: I won't show it to my family, because they can't give an objective evaluation. Including many of my friends, they don't have the means to comment purely from an objective point of view.
I will give it to the "trial readers", they are friends of my friends, some of them are friends of my colleagues, they don't know who I am, and when the manuscript is published, I will pass it on to them through my friends.
The process is anonymous, and usually my friend will say that it is written by a certain writer, and you can help him look at it. The "trial reader" will give the most authentic and objective reaction and evaluation after reading it. After reading their comments, I may notice that there are still some omissions in the work, some mistakes and omissions, and then revise them again.
Another way is to "cold treat". Sometimes I close the manuscript after I finish writing, and I don't think about it for more than half a month, I don't read it, which is called "cold treatment", and I don't read it until I forget about this creative state myself, and I can see it from a third-party perspective. At this time, I will find some problems, and I will continue to make various changes, including my editor, who will also give me a lot of suggestions.
Zhengguan News reporter: What is the general creative process of your works, can you describe it?
Ma Boyong: For me, creation is often a happy process, and in my understanding, writing is actually the process of gradually condensing a series of whimsical ideas and inspirations in my mind on paper.
I've always told people that if you want to write, don't have this thought: I want to write something, then I think about it in my head, think about it perfectly, and then write it in one go, this is actually an illusion, except for a very few days like this, no one can write like this. Because what exists in our minds is never the words themselves, but some vague thoughts, we have to take out these thoughts one by one like focus, implement them on the paper, and see it clearly enough before it can become words, and at this time, it really belongs to you.
Therefore, writing is actually a long process of gradually revising and gradually putting ideas on paper, and this process must be happy, if you are not happy, or if you do not enjoy the process, then I generally do not recommend you to go this way.
Talking about life experience: Reading is never a "picky eater", keep a curiosity
Zhengguan News: How do you arrange your usual time? What books do you read, and what are your plans, experiences and habits in reading? What other hobbies do you have?
Ma Boyong: My usual schedule is very simple, if there are no activities or socializing that need to go out, I will go to my studio around 7:30 in the morning and start working until 5 o'clock in the evening.
In terms of reading, science fiction, martial arts, war, history, ...... I read everything and was never a "picky eater". As a writer, I have to have a very mixed knowledge, not necessarily very deep, but all walks of life, all kinds of education, nine streams of education must be able to say something. To achieve this level, you must not be selective when you read books, because once you choose, your reading horizons will become narrower and narrower.
For example, if I like to read literature and history, then I may only read books on literature and history in the future, and on the basis of literature and history, I will choose more and more favorite books, which may become narrower and narrower, so sometimes I will deliberately not choose books on literature and history. I read everything, technology, natural science, social science, all civilizations, all countries, I don't pick them, I read them all.
I don't have to say what kind of books I like to read, but emotionally I prefer to read something that talks about the details of life. For example, what is the daily work status of a counselor? For example, how do high-speed rail drivers usually go to work? How was he assessed? He drives thousands of kilometers at a time, where to rest? For example, when the flight attendants are on a cross-border flight, what is the place where they sleep? I'm interested in these little details.
As for other hobbies, playing games, watching movies, watching TV, and sometimes chatting with friends.
Zhengguan News reporter: How is your life related to your creation? How do you solve the troubles you encounter in life?
Ma Boyong: Every aspect of life can be a source of inspiration for my creation.
Walking on the street to see the local snacks, in the museum to see a few cultural relics, in the places of interest to the ancients to stand in the place where the ancients stood, to see the scenery that the ancients have seen, and even to hear a casual quarrel when taking the subway or bus, an inadvertent expression...... can form the material for my novels.
The novel itself is a condensation of the world, it is to show us a world, and for me, every aspect of the real world is an important supplement. For a writer, the most important quality is to have a curiosity about life, he is willing to accept all kinds of information from the outside world, and condense it, through the coarse and refined, and finally refine the interesting things into words.
The most common trouble in life is that you can't write a manuscript, or you have an empty subject and an inspiration, but you don't know how to proceed, this kind of thing happens every day.
The solution is to run, like Haruki Murakami. At first, I thought it was very difficult to run, because I was heavy and had poor physical fitness, and I was panting when I ran more than 100 meters, but then by chance, I met a fitness coach when I went back to my hometown, and he was "forced" to practice for a few days and suddenly found that the effect was very good, and I got the fun of exercising from it.
Running has two benefits for me, one is that it improves my physical fitness, and the other is that it helps me get inspiration to write. I was so engrossed in running that I couldn't have anything else in my head, because it took all my energy to just cope with the movement of every organ and muscle in my body.
This feeling is especially good for writing, which requires inspiration, not meditation. Inspiration is when your brain is empty, it will come in suddenly, so running is a form of forced distraction from writing, and when I run long enough, I may run and run and suddenly the inspiration will come to me, much more likely than if I sat on a table or lay in bed and meditated on it.
Zhengguan News: Today, you have won many honors and awards, how do you view fame and fortune?
Ma Boyong: First of all, I must be very happy, this award is a recognition of me by others, and I can't pretentiously say that I want to be indifferent to fame and fortune, for me, winning the award is a very happy thing.
Especially every time I win an award, I tell my parents, including my former Chinese teacher, that they will be happy for me, and an award often brings happiness to many people, which I think is a very good thing.
On the other hand, I also get nervous. Every time I win an award, it actually raises me to a higher level than I imagined, and I will be asked of a higher level: you have won this award, should the subsequent works be completely based on the standards of this award? You can't be lower than him, otherwise others will say that you have regressed, or that you have declined, which is also a pressure on myself, and I need to continue to maintain a high quality output to be worthy of this award.
Talking about IP adaptation: "As long as you grasp the essence, you don't have to be loyal to the original everywhere"
Zhengguan News reporter: Your work "Lychee of Chang'an" is in the stage of film and television production, and the majority of book fans are looking forward to it. What do you think about the IP adaptation of your work?
Ma Boyong: My requirement is to look good enough. I also told them that there is no need to say that you have to be faithful to the original book, the book itself is 70,000 words, which is very short, and if you want to make a TV series, there will definitely be some big changes in its content.
In addition, the expression of literature and film and television is two different ways, literature is a poetic expression, and film and television drama is an audio-visual language, and the transformation between the two will definitely produce some changes.
So I told them not to worry about what has been changed, the original author is not happy. What you want to capture is the essence of this book, why is this book so popular? Is it because the writing is good? Wonderful characters? Twists and turns in the story? Or is the world setting eye-catching? The most important thing is to find this point, keep this point unchanged, and other places can play to the fullest, so that you can shoot a good thing.
Zhengguan News reporter: In the era of artificial intelligence, if AI recognizes and refines your writing ideas and characteristics, will you worry about being replaced by AI?
Ma Boyong: I think there is no way to replace the idea, because the idea does not lie in the fact that the information collected is complete and fast enough to be replaced. Behind the idea is still determined by your life experience, because people with different life experiences will make different choices, and will have different tendencies for the screening of materials, so there will be different ideas when it comes to creation. All of the above things are all because you are a living person, and you have experienced all kinds of things since you were a child, and what makes up what you write.
And AI is actually a random combination, and this random combination will of course produce a lot of good things, but I don't think it can have its own growth experience like a human being, and this growth experience is like the author's fingerprint, which can be perceived by the reader.
For example, when we watch "Dream of Red Mansions", we can feel that this is Cao Xueqin's sudden fall from a wealthy and wealthy family; When we watch "Romance of the Three Kingdoms", we can feel that Luo Guanzhong must have fought; Watching "Water Margin", we can feel that Shi Nai'an must have "been an underworld", otherwise the specific skills of deception and abduction in the work would not have been written so vividly, this is the "fingerprint" left by the author in the work.
The problem with AI is that it has no way to leave this "fingerprint", it can only be a random combination, and for readers, they may still want to see the "fingerprint" of the author behind a work to have a better feeling. Again, the advantage that human beings, or those of us writers, can maintain is our own unique life experience, which is exactly what the reader wants to see.
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